AYS Deletes Me, FIGHT BACK PEOPLE!!

[AnI4AnI]

Okay well, I gave AYS 24 hours to respond as to why my account mysteriously disappeared yesterday. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and looked on several forums to see if perhaps it was a site-wide problem. I wrote using the contact form asking why I was unable to log in to my account and why my email address was not in the database. I informed them that I have screenshots and they owe me $230.00. Here's the clincher. I don't use cheatbots. I log in every couple days and do at least one email. I did not click a cheat link. Therefore, I can only assume they deleted me for speaking out about them. Perhaps the person/people responsible for uncovering my identity in the first place might like to pay me the $230.00.

These sites that don't pay people for months and months then find any excuse to delete people are deplorable, sneaky and underhanded and we cannot allow them to keep getting away with it.

So, here's what I'm going to do and I suggest everyone who is tired of waiting for their money also do it. Go to this web-site, http://www.impactcollections.com/whatwedo.htm it's called National Collection Agency and file a complaint against www.allyousubmitters.com. Once you submit the initial complaint, they will email you with further instructions and a URL where you can proceed with the recovery of your funds. The cost for the collection is $16.95, plus $3.00 if you wish to report them to the credit bureaus. I would also recommend the call center option for $12.00 which brings the total cost to collect the debt to $31.95.

You should be able to add the cost of the collection to the amount they owe. Don't forget to add this cost since it shouldn't cost you a dime to recover funds owed you.

It's important to at least include the $3.00 charge where they will be reported to the credit bureaus. It may help with future police investigations if they close shop and disappear and will deter future efforts when they apply for mortgages, car loans, credit cards, even telephone service.

I have the business information, which I am not posting publically but you may either PM me for it or go to www.whois.net to retrieve it.

This procedure may also be used for other late paying sites such as Aprils and Annies. Initially, you may have to fork over the collection fee but you'll get it back since I don't imagine too many program owners will be able to operate a business with a credit report full of complaints.

Remember, the program owners will try desperately to discourage, threaten, harass you from taking this action but it's our only ace in the hole. I have made this public, feel free to copy and paste this in other forums and tell your uplines and downlines about it.

Again, I strongly urge anyone who has been ripped off by these sites to do this!!!

[moniopt]

Therefore, I can only assume they deleted me for speaking out about them.

Probably! It's the reason why I got deleted. Then they start really talking BS after the fact to make it look like they are right when they are sooooooo wrong. They tell half-truths, over exaggerate, extort the facts, belittle you on their board, and mix rhetoric to put on the spin. They even used reasons to delete me from what I said in a thread I started AFTER I was deleted. I wouldn't have started a thread of being deleted if I wasn't deleted. They also had one of my posts edited over at the Paid to read board and then used it against me to support a bogus argument of how mean I am. Well the words that were edited were similar to, mean spirited, vindictive, BS, nasty etc...Hey, that is the way one mod came across after I asked her for help in finding out why I was banned from their board. Eventually the mod that originally banned me, for playfully asking if the posters baiting me was all women(as I felt like I was in a debate with my sister and nieces), kept me from using the PM feature. Unreal! Then I called Linder and he went back on his word and misrepresented what really happened on the boards.

Not sure what good your idea will do in actually getting our money back, but it will put them on the spot. Something all corrupt programs with administrators that USE people must realize before they go and hide behind computers.

I just might take your advice. After all, they are stealing money from those that earned it legitimately. Companies just don't fire people AND take their paycheck. They seem to think they can get away with it because they are a “private organization”.

Might be worth the $31.95. I also urge people contact the Attorney General of California. You might not see the results but with enough complaints they will be investigated and maybe forced to open up the books to them.

[AnI4AnI]

Yes, I've been following your plight also, monio and people should be VERY disturbed by what's going on.

The $31.95 will be SO worth it when they find their credit reports so messed up they can't even buy a loaf of bread.

By the way, feel free to copy/paste the info in GPF. ;)

[AnI4AnI]

Remember too, people...you don't have to wait until they run off in the night or delete you for no reason. If you've been waiting several months for payment, you should initiate the collection process now. Something tells me it isn't going to be the meek who ends up getting paid from them.

[Tmarie99]

You're kidding right? That link is to a company designed to help businesses.
Their TOS, which YOU read and YOU agreed to, states that there is no definite time that you will be paid.

[moniopt]

Their TOS, which YOU read and YOU agreed to, states that there is no definite time that you will be paid.

You talking about AYS's TOS? If so, that wasn't what was there when I signed on or agreed to. Had something around 90 days....

[AnI4AnI]

Their TOS also says "YOU WILL BE PAID...", am I correct? So if we/they abide by the part about length of time, even though they change them frequently and use obscure time-frames they must also acknowledge and abide by the fact that they OWE THIS DEBT TO US.

In any event, TMairie...some of us are not content to waste our time putting money in other people's pockets. If you are then I'll be sure to let you know when my rent is due as it sounds to me like you'd be happy to pay it. Or I could just do the roundabout thing to pay my bills and open up a PTR business and suck in as many members as I can and tell them I'll pay them but instead pay my own bills and leave them hanging since most of them seem like they actually want to be taken for a ride. Up to you, which would you prefer?

[Mallerie]

this part must get forgotten about a lot i guess:

By signing up and actively using All You Submitters hereinafter referred to as "AYS PTR", you, hereinafter referred to as "Member" agree to all terms and conditions set forth in this agreement. AYS may, at any time, choose to edit, add and/or delete portions of this agreement and impose changes without prior notification of its members. Members will be informed of any and all changes to this policy via an email to their primary contact email address or AYS Site inbox provided upon signing up with AYS PTR. If any modification is unacceptable to you, your only recourse is to terminate this agreement. Your continued participation in the AYS PTR program following our posting of a change in policy notice or new agreement on our site will constitute binding acceptance to the change.


wheather you want to go after them isyour affar but i'm certainly not going to FIGHT BACK on your say so. youve been mean many times to many people why would i take direction from you. i manage to keep my accounts at all my prgrams with no problems.

as T pointed out thats for businesses. since when did you become a business? i think your encouraging people down the WRONG path. fight all you want just pick the right arena and dont screw everyone else up.

Mal

[wagdoll]

None of us really knows the legality of that 'we may change the terms' etc in the tos. I always thought contracts were bilateral agreements not to be changed unilaterally half way through or even after the original agreement had been completed by one of the parties.

When people over the payout minimum had been waiting longer than the tos stated when they signed up were told that it was no longer 90 days but 'whenever', I think that for one thing that is wrong, for another they 'had' to agree to that and 'had' to keep clicking in order to have any hope of seeing the money they had already earned under the terms of the original agreement, at that point it becomes like extortion or something, telling someone they will be paid after so much work and time, then after they wait 90 days you say, no keep on working until we say you may stop, which might not be for another 20 years and in the meantime we wont pay you a penny,
even though you fulfilled your side of the original agreement.

IF these 'we may change the terms' bits were so legal why dont we see them anywhere else in our lives? Wouldnt it be handy if your landlord could raise the rent and make it retroactive 5 years after you signed the tenancy agreement? Wouldnt it be cool for the banks to let you pay off your mortgage over 25 years, then say they changed their minds and they are gonna make you pay for another 10 years just because they are behind on payments to their creditors and need the extra money.

If the tos are not a legally binding agreement, is it right for a business to expect people to keep working and working and payments delayed under a non-binding agreement? Wouldnt that constitute fraud?

If members arent being paid, that is no ones fault but the owners of Ays. If one member is unhappy about waiting 9 months for their payout which they expected to arrive within 90 days and goes to the authorities, it is not their fault that no one is being paid. Do not make such a person a scapegoat to protect the only person who is at fault!

[Mallerie]

If members arent being paid, that is no ones fault but the owners of Ays. If one member is unhappy about waiting 9 months for their payout which they expected to arrive within 90 days and goes to the authorities, it is not their fault that no one is being paid. Do not make such a person a scapegoat to protect the only person who is at fault!

i don't know if ANY of this standsup. there was a retired (i think) lawyer at gpf saying something like none of this woudl have an affect in court. like the case wouldnt go anywhere.

which would explain why no one has ever reported a sucesful lawsuit. only thing i know of is that fred sprock? thing and you HAD to pay him money to use the program. ptre you dont HAVE to pay its a different ballgame.

if ays doesnt pay you might want to tell that to anyone and everyone thats posted on any forum including theirs that they got checks. must be imaginary checks. i mean if NOBODY is getting paid at all their postmen must be delivering air. :p

(YES WE KNOW IT'S TAKING LONG)

Mal

[AnI4AnI]

Thank you wagdoll, very well said. :)

[teedy]

Hi AntiAAA was ani4ani taken at gptforum?? its a real bummer that when the user name you want to use is already taken hey?? has happened to me before,
http://www.gptforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7087&st=0&#entry38302
This Original topic (comment0 is posted at Gptforum too, word for word so I have tried to answer you there,now that I know its you, but maybe if you go to the programs forum you may get a quicker answer, :)

[Mallerie]

Therefore, I can only assume they deleted me for speaking out about them.

you seem like a smart person you DO realize theres a big difference between 'speaking out' about something and bashing it every chance you get and hurling personal attacks at members and owners and anyon that supports?

you did a lot more than 'speak out'. a LOT more. if I were a lwyer and saw all your posts here and at gpf i'd laugh you right out of my office.

Mal

[AnI4AnI]

Nope, the user name wasn't taken teedy. I can use whatever name I want. Doesn't really matter as it has no bearing whatsoever on the topic at hand, does it?

Did you have something constructive to add to the conversation?


Mallerie, I'm not interested in bickering with you but I would invite a reputable lawyer to have a look at my past posts anytime.

[Tatirog]

AnI4AnI

You posted the same topic at GPTForum as Teedy already mentioned.
An interesting question has been asked there and you didn't come back to answer it.
I'm curious if Nikster is right or perhaps s/he is mistaken?
Or Teedy is wrong and your AYS ID is not Jypsy?
But that was the only deletion since yesterday and if it's not you than YOUR account obviously hasn't been deleted (if it makes any sense)

I'm really confused here
Tati

Edited to add: You've already posted your reply over there, so no need to answer
I know someone called Jypsy got deleted for Program abuse
thats not you is it? :)

If its something else you could get someone to ask at the forum for you?

I could do that if you want!
Wasn't Jypsy the one who came up with that phony dying grandmother scam who got POs to pay her AHEAD of OTHER members who'd been waiting even longer than her for payouts? And then got a whole bunch of people on the forums to send her money so she could go see the dying fictional grandmother? Did she even attempt to make it look like she WENT?

THEN, didn't she come back under like three or four other really obnoxious personas on GPF who denied having accounts with all those sites she was bashing? LOL She turned on all the people who'd helped her out, didn't she? If that's the person we're talking about, then all I can say is, "HAH!"

All that crusading for "the little people" who "have no voices" and she was lying and sneaking ahead of all those little people in the payout line. Nice person.

[Mallerie]

Mallerie, I'm not interested in bickering with you but I would invite a reputable lawyer to have a look at my past posts anytime.

sorry i wouldnt pay for anything that has to do with you.

im sure we're all insterested on your 'collection agentcy' turnout. im thinking itll go nowhere since your not a business but any outcome at all will be interestings.

keep us posted.

Mal

[AnI4AnI]

They know who I am.

I think everyone who's been waiting for payout should attempt to collect. The least that will happen is each one will be reported to the credit bureaus and if they're using payment systems and bank accounts and credit cards, we can shut them down so they don't keep luring unsuspecting people into their self-serving web of deceit.

I think they'll probably wish they had of just paid me.

BTW, I won't be responding to certain people, I've put them on "Ignore"...handy little feature. :)

[teedy]

Did you have something constructive to add to the conversation?
.

Yes I replied as I said earlier at gptforum, no need to do it twice, ;)
sure you read that reply,

[teedy]

They know who I am.

I think everyone who's been waiting for payout should attempt to collect. The least that will happen is each one will be reported to the credit bureaus and if they're using payment systems and bank accounts and credit cards, we can shut them down so they don't keep luring unsuspecting people into their self-serving web of deceit.

I think they'll probably wish they had of just paid me.

BTW, I won't be responding to certain people, I've put them on "Ignore"...handy little feature. :)

Sounds almost like your touting for business with this Collection Service your
not on commision are you? :hehe: Why don't you just let everyone know how you go with your complaint claim after you have paid the fees and whatever, Is there any timeframe on how long it takes? I may use them for collecting from my ex, :cool: I will be sure to check back regular here to see what kind of result you get, ;) ,

[Meroveus]

Just a point of information about collection agencies: if they don't collect, you not only won't get paid, but also can't get your fees reimbursed. Anyone pursuing anything like this should be prepared to lose any fees associated with the action. This is not intended to discourage anyone from taking whatever action they feel is right: but assume any money you pay to the collection agency is simply gone forever. If you can't afford to spend it, you may want to consider other options.

Mero

[Susy]

Just got back from a rush trip to Texas (daughter ill), and wonder upon wonder, the first thing I see upon return is this insanity again.

No, Tams. You only have to look at yourself, and the things you've done (in the crusade for the "little people")...to understand why now you've been deleted.

I don't blame them, or anyone else at this point. You can't lie, cheat, and harass without consequences.

There's two people around here, who loved you, cared about what was happening in your life, and who WERE your friends. And you even lied to them, and hurt them.

I'm so sorry I let you down. And I'm so sorry you're hurting. But I never will slap you on the back and say job well done when you've gone about this all wrong.

I broke my vow about posting on forums, specifically for this.

To the rest of you people, pro/con/whatever, this industry is so skewed it is sickening. Each and every one of us are to blame. Program owners and members alike. Stop going after others until you look deeply into yourselves. I learned this the hard way. I beg each of you learn it now. And stop the lunacy that is happening on all these forums and in all these programs.

And please, stop expecting something for nothing.

Back to Tams, you were paid by AYS. Ahead of others. To help you. You were paid by Mike, ahead of others. To help you. Not sure of who else po wise did (been a while and I lost the records with the puter change)...but each person/program that did help out, did so with thought for you. And you destroyed that trust yourself. You have no one to blame but yourself.

People, when BRYAN and one other person started the campaign to help Jypsy get to her grandmother...AT THAT TIME SHE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THIS. Bryan started the campaign, and others helped. OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF THEIR HEARTS. Now each of you bashers/destroyers/complainers/whiners/knowitalls, etc. chime in saying Jypsy started it. SHE DID NOT. I won't let this keep going on. This is wrong.

At that time, we only thought to help out a friend in need. At that time, I wasn't so jaded and so heartless and thoughtless to think Jypsy's grandmother wasn't ill (or that there was no grandmother). I had both Tam's and her family's phone number. And DID tell several people. At ANY TIME throughout the donation thread, anyone could have PM'd me, emailed me, or IM'd me and I would have gladly verified.

One other point, IN ALL PM'S, EMAILS, I SPECIFICALLY TOLD EACH AND EVERY PERSON WHO CONTACTED ME TO PLEASE SPECIFY DONATION OR LOAN TO BE PAID BACK, SO WE COULD KEEP TRACK.

To DGE, when she called Jypsy out MONTHS later (and I was not privy to what Tam's had done by that time), I told DGE I would pay her personally. Just give me amount per month needed until I could fully pay her back, and I would do so. However, apparently she felt the need to continue pushing IN PUBLIC. No matter what Tams has done, I wouldn't have gone that way.

As far as the rest of this crap, again, Tam you alone are responsible for your OWN actions, as we ALL are. You went about this all wrong. And it's backfired...BIG TIME.

The rest of you? Stop blaming others for your own faults, stupidity, lack of thought, lack of work ethics, lack of any ethics whatsoever (mark...I am NOT naming people...if the shoe fits, wear it). There's enough information available to ALL OF US to at least get a better idea of what PTR is, and how to go about researching programs. If you join without reading, please do not assume you'll be sympathized with if something happens. That's your responsibility. If you join, the program turns bad, simply STATE what's wrong. Email the webbies, go READ forums, etc. Submit your complaints...RESPECTFULLY, THOUGHTFULLY.

NO ONE GETS DELETED WITHOUT REASON. NO ONE. Unless the software glitzes. There has to be "some" reason. But again, ASK ... and stop the frikkin bashing. Everyone here KNOWS that gets you nowhere.

I'm so heartily sick and tired of the whining, thoughtless complaining, bs talk, blaming others, etc. I really want to scream. I see on this forum the same senseless stupidity as I see on GPF and every other forum out there. SIMPLY BECAUSE "SOME" PEOPLE WANT EVERYONE ELSE TO DO THEIR WORK FOR THEM, AND REFUSE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS/INACTIONS. Grow UP people. UTILIZE the tools available, DISCUSS how to make this better, READ/RESEARCH/ASK QUESTIONS.

I'm very disgusted seeing some people I so admired and respected turn out to be childish, selfish, demeaning bullies and blowhards. I'm disgusted that people who HAVE good ideas, sound thoughts, wonderful insight into how to make this industry actually viable...turn all this into a 3 ring circus.

WE ARE ALL AT FAULT HERE. NO ONE IS BLAMELESS. THINK ABOUT IT.

And PLEASE STOP destroying these forums with this senseless crap I see daily. UTILIZE them for the betterment of this industry. HELP...DON'T BASH.

I'm out.

Tams, I sincerely hope that one day, you'll find peace.

[Tmarie99]

Collection agencies... :stupid: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[kglaser]

(sorry OT)
I read about your daughter's illness at Misty and Sam's forum and was just about to post there when I saw this. I hope you read this. I just want to extend my best thoughts and wishes to your daughter for a speedy recovery and pray she is much improved.
((((((Susy))))))

[Styr]

i think Linder got tired of getting backstabbed by you,

if it was me, i would have kicked you out a long time ago

you were searching for it and you found it, dont say it really surprise you...

btw my granny is feeling much better, had her surgery today for her heart and for her back is next week, no need to send me money tho, she know i love her and she lives next door

[Mallerie]

People, when BRYAN and one other person started the campaign to help Jypsy get to her grandmother...AT THAT TIME SHE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THIS. Bryan started the campaign, and others helped. OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF THEIR HEARTS. Now each of you bashers/destroyers/complainers/whiners/knowitalls, etc. chime in saying Jypsy started it. SHE DID NOT. I won't let this keep going on. This is wrong.


from what im seeing im not sure people think she really 'started'anything and whoever bryan is sounds like a great person.

but you cant avoid the point that when you put your hurting story out there peoplw will respond to it. it's not BLAMIG anyone but youd have to be an internet newbie to NOT know this. jypsy is no newbie.

the other part is that she didnt HAVE to accept any money correct? the point was she did accept and then came back and verbally whipped pepole. does it even MATTER if she asked for the money at that point? no. you dont have to ask to get kindness and goodness and still show some gratelfullness.

i understand she didnt ask thats so NOT the point. the point is she took and took and took. waht she did is take the folks that helped her for FOOLS.

she had choices. she could have rejected the money and then continued this cruisade of nastiness or she could have acceped the money and been a good person about it. NO MATTER WHO STARTED GETTING THE MONEY.

susy you sound like a real great person. you stated great what a lot of people think already but maybe arent as good as saying it that way. jyspy lost out. i hope other good people in your life are as good to you as you are to them. i dont know whats up with your daughter but i hope she feels better soon.

Mal

[Susy]

Thank you {{{{{{Katie}}}}}} and Mal for your good wishes.

I'm not denying the wrong done. And you are correct, Mal, she did not have to take the money. We also didn't have to give that money, either. Two way street. :) Bryan and everyone else did so from their heart. And I am so truly sorry things came out to be so bad here. I DO know Jypsy has handled some things badly. But I have to say this, all of us at one time or another have handled something badly. Sometimes, we do find ways to make it better, sometimes "some" of us fall short.

I just can't see carrying this on any further. All it does it cause more problems in the long run. What's done is done, and there's no taking back the thing. We can only learn and go forward. Not backward.

I'm NOT condoning the actions. And I know that Jypsy stopped considering other people somewhere along the way. Her light burned out, along with her desire to honestly help people. I'm very sad about that. And do carry guilt that at one time, I shut down on her. I might have been able to help somewhat if I hadn't.

Rambling, I am. :)

I'm truly sorry for all the people that got hurt. If I had the means, everyone who donated or loaned would be paid back in full. And my offer still goes, I would try hard to pay back DGE or anyone else who asked. I have no personal funds, just what little I make from these programs, but would do my best.

For the rest, I just honestly wish and hope that we can all get past all these problems, and join together honestly, with real intent to find ways of helping this industry realize its potential. Instead of lashing out against each other.

[AnI4AnI]

Since when, Susy is it illegal to change a username so one can have total freedom to express their thoughts, observations and opinions about a program? Rather than being wrapped in a shroud of caution, fear and intimidation, I chose a different name because I recognized serious issues that I felt needed to be addressed. Not only with AYS but also with Annies and Aprils and Webber. When one is worried about getting deleted and losing the money they've earned, they tend to not want to rock the boat too much but give them free reign and they're able to say things they couldn't otherwise. Let me tell you about how shocked I was to see some of the very same people, not recognizing who I was, who were once thoroughly agreeable with me do a complete turn around or flip flop on the issues. I was stunned. How many times I had to sit on my hands when the blatant hypocrasy appeared on my screen? So often I lost track. So you're right about one thing, people SHOULD look deep inside themselves.

I've tried to convery a strong, consistent message. I don't *****foot around. I tell it like it is. The program owners are in a unique position to use a form of manipulation and abuse toward their members and unless the members are aware of the techniques and tactics used, they are utterly defenseless. It wasn't as much about "saving anyone from themselves"...it was more about letting the POs know that some of us were on to them and we'd find any way possible to either shut them down or warn new people from getting lured in to the same madness we've fallen victim to in the past few months. I guess by not just meekly clicking links, being quiet and waiting and waiting for a payment that will never come, it makes me a bad person by speaking. I guess by not walking away and actually caring about others, wanting to expose the worst of the worst that makes me a bad person. According to some of you, we should just quietly accept all the one-sided, self-serving changes they keep throwing at us...making it longer and longer and harder and harder to get the money already earned.

I've tried to educate people to not be victims. I've tried to empower them. I've tried to tell them we don't have to accept all the baloney the POs dish out. Anyone would get a tad defensive when the very people who had influence, who could have helped, who could have helped steer the train away from impending doom chose instead to attack the messenger. Sorry, but I'm not about to tiptoe through the tulips about this. I held up my end of the deal. I wouldn't have HAD to say anything about AYS or Annies or Aprils if they had of paid me in a reasonable amount of time. They were the ones who victimized me, not vice versa.

Now, what happened with my grandmother has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not AYS pays me what they owe me. When they paid me before, I had waited months and I wasn't the one who asked them to. Same with Mikes. I wasn't the one who entered into contracts with anyone. I was much too distraught at the time and you know that. I've told them how much I appreciated their help and most people would pretty much figure out that when someone's barely making ends meet...there are other priorities like keeping a roof over one's head. I'm not going to keep re-hashing all this over and over. None of it has anything to do with the fact that the POs are NOT paying people and they are deleting people for speaking out. Will you be next, Susy? Will you say something that rubs someone the wrong way and suddenly find you can't log in to your account?

Yes, you are absolutely right. People need to take a good long look inside themselves. I did nothing wrong here. I stand by my convictions and I stand by my friends.

[Tmarie99]

When changing your user name, are you doing it to be honest or are you doing it to FLAME? Have you tried every other alternative, or did you immediately jump to threats of legal action and *snerk* collection agencies?
Issuing ultimatums, 24 hours or else. Or else what? What are you going to do?
I realize that I am, and will always be, one who says that EIGHT months is entirely too long to pay, and that anyone who takes that long is less than reputable. However, threats of collection agencies is just silly. Even I can't take that route.

[lil crusader]

AnI: You still don't seem to understand why people have a problem with you. It's not because you speak out about things or call things the way you see them. Those are admirable qualities.

BUT....

Your problem is that once you have spoken out - you expect everyone to fall in line neatly behind you in mindless agreement and if anyone fails to do that, then once again you speak out - generally saying pretty much the same thing, while adding a few digs towards anyone who doesn't see things the way you see them.

This is a cycle that repeats itself everywhere you go, no matter what ID you use or who/what you happen to be "speaking out" about.

You expect 100% agreement - no questions asked - and you seem to think the way to get that is to say the same things over and over and over and over and over.....never once giving any consideration to others' opinions and having nothing but contempt for those who happen to disagree with you.

Get over yourself!

It's fine to have opinions and to share them.......If you were content to do that, I doubt that anyone would ever have a problem with you. But you are so obviously NOT content to simply share your feelings about issues and therein lies the entire problem. I'm not sure why you can't seem to understand this, but the fact is, you are only one person with one opinion....no one else is required to agree with you and you do not have the right to criticize or belittle anyone who sees things differently.

Until you are able to accept the fact that everyone has a right to THEIR OWN opinion, things are never going to change for you.

[Meroveus]

I'm posting here as a PTR member, not a moderator. I don't even have the ability to edit posts or anything like that outside my own forum, so I hope no one takes issue on my posting here. :)

I've read this whole thing and thought of a lot that really has nothing to do with AYS or AnI, but applies to all of us. There are some questions you might want to ask yourself.

Is the topic "What this member did wrong" or "what this member did wrong that merited deletion at AYS"? Forget, for the moment, about mistakes you feel she has made as a person. As an AYS member, what rule did she break? What did she do/fail to do that caused deletion?

If she was deleted for "bashing" the program on forums, may I ask where is the fine line between a critical post and a "bashing" post? Is it up to the program owner to decide? If you trust Linder's judgment, that's one thing, but would you apply the same rule to every program owner? Jay Montroy, Evelyn Turner, Fred Srock?

Mero

[kglaser]

BRAVO, Pam! Once again, you make a post that so beautifully sums up what I was thinking, but lacked the faculty to type out.

[Mallerie]

BRAVO, Pam! Once again, you make a post that so beautifully sums up what I was thinking, but lacked the faculty to type out.

100% agreed.

srroy you cant seem to see it Mero. you werent on the bashing end of her words you cant stand ays either.

most (obviously not all) others have seen it for a long time with her. as kglaser says crusader nailed it. nobody should have had to put up with the hate and anger from this person just because all people dont agree with her. she bashed the program AND members.

again sorry yu cant see it. for many folks its plain as day.

Mal

[Styr]

**snort** you only changed your ID cuz you got deleted from gpf 2-3 times :laugh: :D :laugh: :D even i dont bother going back there anymore

but ooh having your grandma story in the picture when its good for you is OK, but now that people are doubting it and making you look bad trough it, now its dosnt have anything to do with this present story anymore right?

carefull honey pie, your feet are caught in the carpet... :\

[AnI4AnI]

Lil Crusader, there aren't too many folks posting in these forums who don't say the same things over and over. Go back and look at people's posts. Same old same old, you do it, everyone does it. As Mero says, use the same standards you judge me with on everyone else and you might realize you're singleing me out for other reasons. Also, I don't have a problem with people who don't agree with me, ask wagdoll and Anonymous and a few others. I can respectfully let other's have an opinion. It's the defending of losers and abusers that I have a problem with. If someone said, "Ok, you're right Ani but I just want to be real quiet and wait for my payout and not make waves," then I'd have a lot more respect for them. They don't do that, though. They pounce on everyone. They made up lies and gossip about me without even doing the research then posted things as if they were true...and you don't say anything about that, Lil Crusader.

Mero, I did nothing for them to delete my account. They did it out of spite.

Now think about that, people..do you enjoy them manipulating you like that? Did this shut you up? Are you worried they'll do the same to you if you speak? Is it easier, in fact to direct your anger and confusion at me so you don't have to put your own accounts at risk?

Self-evaluation time.

[CTaylor]

An-Eye-For-An-I, right AnI4AnI?

I've been trying to read this thread (and the other hundreds just like it) with some objectivity. I must honestly say that changing your username over and over again doesn't come off as a need for privacy, but rather a way to re-sign up in forums with the hopes that no one will figure out that it's you. And only because you know that there's a hefty chance that you'll be banned for returning.

Think what you will about AYS and Mike's and any other program. As Pam said so eloquently, everyone has the right to their own opinion...just like you. But stop putting down other peoples' opinions, and blaming everyone but yourself for the consequences. I think you'll find you'll be a much more content person if you try it.

JMO

[Mallerie]

Did this shut you up? Are you worried they'll do the same to you if you speak? Is it easier, in fact to direct your anger and confusion at me so you don't have to put your own accounts at risk?

Self-evaluation time.

heres some self evaluation for you.

no i wouldnt be worried one single bit. ive complained about payouts through contact form with them! why didnt I get deleted? huh? the thought of being deleted didnt bother me at all i said what i had to say but i said in a good way.

i see a lot of people complain about payouts with ays and theyre not deleted. crusaders complained on their OWN FORUM for petes sake. so have a lot of others. why arent they all deleted?

each time cruasder brings up "its not what you say its how you say it" you dont ever address that. you really dont understand it do you? thats the difference between you and everyone else thats NOT deleted. understanding the difference between posting COMPLAINTS and posting THREATS, BASHING, INSULTING etc.

its been explained to you 100 times but youll never get it. leave it as your right everyone else is wrong case closed. you wont ever see past that.

Mal

[kglaser]

AnI4AnI, have you ever been wrong about anything? In your life? Ever? Because I've never seen you acknowledge that, not once under all your usernames.

[Tmarie99]

AnI4AnI, have you ever been wrong about anything? In your life? Ever? Because I've never seen you acknowledge that, not once under all your usernames.
:hehe: snicker :laugh:

[Meroveus]

srroy you cant seem to see it Mero. you werent on the bashing end of her words you cant stand ays either.

most (obviously not all) others have seen it for a long time with her. as kglaser says crusader nailed it. nobody should have had to put up with the hate and anger from this person just because all people dont agree with her. she bashed the program AND members.

again sorry yu cant see it. for many folks its plain as day.

Mal
I see just fine. ;) I see what rule GPF banned her for breaking; I see the grievance you guys all have with her. What I asked was:

(1) What rule did she break at AYS?
(2) If it was "forum abuse", who is to judge what constitutes abuse as opposed to unwelcome criticism? The program owner? And if so, would you trust the judgment of ANY program owner, or just the ones you like?

Maybe this is just a "Why we don't like AnI" thread and I'm wrong to try to address the issue of how program owners can use "forum abuse" as an excuse to delete anyone who points out things they don't want to hear.

EDIT: Again, I'm speaking as a member here, not a mod, and don't even have mod powers in this forum. :)

Mero

[AnI4AnI]

Again, harping on the username thing is just a way of deflecting from the real issues of what Mero is asking.

How long do most of you think you'll have to keep buttering up the program owners just to see your few dollars and do you really think they'll actually pay you? Looks to me like the new trend is zeroing out databases or changing dollar amounts to useless points. You guys still going to love them when all your time and efforts go down the drain?

Oh and trust me, if I didn't want anyone to know who I was, no one would.

[CTaylor]

Other questions have been asked of you besides the username one. What about answering some of those?

[AnI4AnI]

CTaylor, it seems it's easier to point the finger at me, to blind yourself to the truth that AYS deleted me simply because they didn't like that I had an opinion. Now, if they had of paid me when they were supposed to, none of this would have happened, would it? No, I wouldn't have had a reason to complain, would I? No, it's much easier to be a wallflower and meekly wait for money that will probably never come than it is to confront the issues, isn't it?

Funny, I think most members are wrong for allowing themselves to be manipulated and used and most members think I'm wrong for speaking out against it. Very strange.

Kglaser, when I'm wrong about something, I'll admit it. It may not have occured to you that I might have reasons for thinking the way I do but thank you for your concern.

Some of the folks who have been in abusive relationships and who have educated themselves about certain things have recognized similar patterns with most of these POs and their attitudes and relationships with their members. Be assured though, very few to none of you will ever be any of their priorities when the roof falls in around them. Believe me, you'll be the last thing on their minds. You'll only be a debt to them. A liability. Stop fooling yourselves. Don't even take my word for it. Look for yourselves. Ask psychologists questions about it. Talk to people who have experience with this sort of thing. Show them a standard copy of the Terms of Service and ask them if most people who even think about opening a business using them aren't thinking how cool it is and how much they can get away with. Their personal relaionship with you means about as much to them as their TOS does to the memberbase.

[moniopt]

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about AYS anymore. People are not only getting deleted, but they are quitting because it just ain't worth fighting over what they feel they have been cheated out of.....

AYS's time is running short and it will be their own doing. I just read a post from Linder belly aching and blaming everyone else but AYS itself for lack of sustainability and the reason for payments being late...same ole story. You think selling ads at a $600 to $1000 loss would have anything to do with it?

I had my violin out after reading that post.

Hey, if they can't make a profit....how much longer can they survive? Forever if people click for free. Which more or less is happening.......

[CTaylor]

Just curious, monio...where is this post? I couldn't find it. Is it new or were you digging through old threads?

[Mallerie]

I see just fine. ;) I see what rule GPF banned her for breaking; I see the grievance you guys all have with her. What I asked was:

(1) What rule did she break at AYS?
(2) If it was "forum abuse", who is to judge what constitutes abuse as opposed to unwelcome criticism? The program owner? And if so, would you trust the judgment of ANY program owner, or just the ones you like?

Maybe this is just a "Why we don't like AnI" thread and I'm wrong to try to address the issue of how program owners can use "forum abuse" as an excuse to delete anyone who points out things they don't want to hear.

EDIT: Again, I'm speaking as a member here, not a mod, and don't even have mod powers in this forum. :)

Mero

apparently quite a few people feel she went overboard with her posts.

crusadeer said it the best read her post up a few notches.

you count up how many bashing posts wily and starfire had at gpf alone. you dont find that exessive? im sure id find plenty that as a po id call forum abuse but i dont WANT to sort through them all. i saw them at the time they were current and in the forefront. many others did too. im sorry you cant seem to see the name calling, the snotty unncessary comments directed at other membrers and the program owners. it's all there in black in white for you to search it.

is name calling and nasty comments somehow a complaint? because i wasn't raised to believe it was. please explain to me how it is.

if you cant see what others see thats fine. shes been doing this for months. if i had been a po and she was doing this in my program i would have deleted her long ago.

for example her comment on 'buttering up' program owners. who's buttering anyone? it's always something. some crappy disgusting comment meant to belittle SOMEONE. its how she is and what she does. she knows exactly what shes doing and saying.

mero you can manage to post without all the unesesaary comments degrading people. are you REALLY unable to see them when you read allllll those posts? if you cant then sorry cant help you.

Mal

[moniopt]

Just curious, monio...where is this post? I couldn't find it. Is it new or were you digging through old threads?

It's in the "Problems & Complaints" forum. The thread was started Sept 30th, but Linder posted today or yesterday (depending on your time zone). It had to do with "paid to sign up ads" .

[Mallerie]

(2) If it was "forum abuse", who is to judge what constitutes abuse as opposed to unwelcome criticism? The program owner? And if so, would you trust the judgment of ANY program owner, or just the ones you like?
Mero


here ya go heres one post thats right here at this very forum. just a little sample of whats everywhere else. this was directed at me. i know youve seen this already beecause right after you said ther ewas an ignore feature:


You really need to stop wandering so far from your backyard. Now run along, your master's calling you.

so tell me mero this is just merely polite complaining to you? calling linder a "master". masters have what, slaves. so in that being directed at me im linders slave? we both got some abuse in THAT comment. how many hudreds of other comments between a couple of her user names are that or worse?

if you find that acceptable complaints fine. i dont imagine any po would engjoy being called a master in such a belittleing manner. many others including myself find her possts insultish and childish. she may have a valid point here and there but the rest is nothing more than nails down a blackboard. completely unecessary.

do you still really NOT see its how she says things that got the whole situation ground up?

Mal

[Mallerie]

It's in the "Problems & Complaints" forum. The thread was started Sept 30th, but Linder posted today or yesterday (depending on your time zone). It had to do with "paid to sign up ads" .

i think i saw what your talking about.

i think your taking that to an extreme, but thats your call. any program where members cant follow the rules causes strain on any program.

i cant see the threads but ive heard theres a lot of cheatsoftware users getting caught. makes you wonder how many got awya with getting paid.

underseeling is part of the issue no argument at all there but theres usually not one reason for everything. i personally think the link value should drop that would keep out so many people who are looking for quick bucks. i think people see these high value links and think they can pay for all their bills for the year and do whatever they can to make the most no matter how much cheating is involved.

Mal

[moniopt]

i think i saw what your talking about.

i think your taking that to an extreme, but thats your call. any program where members cant follow the rules causes strain on any program.



My understanding is that these members had these ads out there BEFORE the policy and they had no idea they were still there. One even claims they quit a program and thought the ad went with it. I can understand that because I still find ads of mine from years ago when doing searches. What are they doing, going out of there way to delete people. I have my own opinion on that.


Point is, AYS is in serious trouble no matter how you look at it IMO.

[Meroveus]

do you still really NOT see its how she says things that got the whole situation ground up?

No, I see that she's made uncalled-for remarks. How that's relevant to being deleted from a program is what I'm questioning.

Mero

[Mallerie]

No, I see that she's made uncalled-for remarks. How that's relevant to being deleted from a program is what I'm questioning.

Mero

you dont consider multitudes of uncalledfor remakrs and postings about a program the program owner and its members forum abuse? that has nothing to do at all with valid complants twoards a program.

Mal

[Mallerie]

My understanding is that these members had these ads out there BEFORE the policy and they had no idea they were still there. One even claims they quit a program and thought the ad went with it. I can understand that because I still find ads of mine from years ago when doing searches. What are they doing, going out of there way to delete people. I have my own opinion on that.


Point is, AYS is in serious trouble no matter how you look at it IMO.

this comes just from what ive read around at some forums no program ownership here. :)

id think that if program owners knew what trouble was going to happen theyd take steps to prevent it from the beginning. maks sense.

i dont think you can go into thise business and know everything upfront. know every single thing thats going to happen in your pgoram and how it will affect the program and how to handle it effectively. all these things take time. how many cheasters youll have, from what countries, whos gonna do chargebacks on you, etc. you can prepare for some, but not ALL.

take for example cheat software. how long was this stuff out and about first of all, before peopl really KNEW about it? how long was the same group (getting a little bigger all the time) using it and getting away with it with eveyone else none the wiser?

then okay it's found out about. how much damage was done? how long did it take for steps to go into place to either stop it or catch it or try in some way to reverse its effects? and how many MORE cheaters got away with it in that meantime?

i hope that makes sense. its the only example right now I can 'word out'. :)

ays is in trouble no doubt. a year ago people were saying ays was closing its doors in a couple months. so they were wrong. peopel DID get paid in this past year sinc that was said an ill bet you those people are damned gratful ays didnt give up. i hope those that are saying it now are wrong. ays is trying at least in my opinon. if you want to keep slapping them for it thats your call. but you know they could have left months ago leaving everyone with nothing. yes they haven't paid out much recently but theyre going again slowly.

i know full well it all might end up beig closed. but i can hope that it goes the other way. theres no harm in that at all i'm not hurtig anyone. you can brace yourself for the worst and hope for the best. and if things do turn out for the positive side, thats not a bad thing.

if someone is going to be so consistently negative negative negative all the time theres no sense in being in ptr. it's pointless.

Mal

[teedy]

One thing I am really curious about, never being deleted from a program except for inactivity, This is for the OP:
Have you been deleted or banned from any other programs or is it just Ays?

Actually come to think of it has anyone in this thread been banned or deleted from a program , for other things beside the normal stuff ,like inactivity etc

[AnI4AnI]

Good point, Teedy. No, never been deleted from any other program. I've quit programs but no one ever deleted me. Just AYS. There may have been a couple programs lately that I chose to not be active in anymore because I find they're just a waste of time and I am waiting for my ads to finish.

Also, I am not responding to certain people as I have them on my Ignore list but I will say this to repeat what wagdoll said earlier. Stop trying to blame everyone else for program owners not paying. If they had of paid me within a reasonable amount of time they wouldn't have had to worry about me posting negatively in OTHER forums. If insulting someone is considered "forum abuse" then everyone should be deleted. As far as I'm concerned, they still owe me $230 whether they deleted me or not.

[Mallerie]

One thing I am really curious about, never being deleted from a program except for inactivity, This is for the OP:
Have you been deleted or banned from any other programs or is it just Ays?

Actually come to think of it has anyone in this thread been banned or deleted from a program , for other things beside the normal stuff ,like inactivity etc

other than cheat link? no. that was a long time ago too read more carefully since then. i stay active in the programs im in, i dont cheat, i dont insinate or lie about things about a program i cant prove, i dont threaten i dont run from board to board bashing and insulting my heart out. if i do have a complaint or problem i just focus on that not how much i can degrade someone in the process. ive complained before no problems here.

Mal

[Meroveus]

Aside from inactivity, AYS is the only program ever to delete me. I've been doing PTR and similar since about 1999, so I estimate I've been in hundreds of programs. AYS's definition of forum abuse seems to me to be very broad. Of course, it's not a rule they enforce upon themselves or their supporters, so I find the whole thing ironic.

For the record, I've seen a lot of scams, obviously, in the 5-6 years I've been doing this. But I've never had the problems I've had with AYS at any other site. To those who wish I would stop bringing up my "one time" privacy violation: there have been many other privacy violations at AYS. Most recently, they posted contact info for people who hit many of those 10 cheat links during the summer at their forum, and Linder's explanation was that cheaters give up the right to privacy. It was pointed out that the info MAY not even belong to the cheaters, since cheaters lie, so who knows who might be getting harrassed if anyone added that info to mailing lists or whatever - a very good point, actually. Eventually, the info was removed, but I feel the attitude about privacy is a dangerous one, and it has been there since the start so even if they occasionally bow to outside pressure, I see no reason to think the attitude has changed, or will change.

When a different set of privacy concerned were raised in June 2003, I foolishly believed they were only attempting to protect the site from cheaters and I had nothing to worry about. I stuck by the program because I'd been paid and I was blinded by the lure of easy money. This was my mistake.

I have posted what I've posted in hopes of saving others from the same mistakes, and a few people have PMd me and thanked me for sharing. This may very well be my last post on the matter - I'm beginning to realize the info is out there for anyone to see, and those who choose not to are not going to change their minds unless it happens to them.

Money goes a long way toward buying tolerance.

Mero

[lil crusader]

I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this post, so here's an advance warning that it may seem like a lot of rambling. One thing I want to stress before getting started is that this post is not intended to be anti- or pro- anyone or anything....it's just an attempt to get a feel for where things are and where they can go from here.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this whole concept of "forum abuse" and to be honest, I don't like it anymore now than I did when I first saw those words used in the AYS Forum several weeks ago when Mero was suspended over a post made on GPF (and I said so in the AYS Forum). I've always thought that was blatantly unfair and frankly, just plain stupid. It took me back to the days when the same thing used to happen on April's forum. If anybody was caught saying April was anything less than "awesome" they got the boot too -- remember that? (I do, because I was one of the bootees!)

I didn't think it was fair when it happened to Wil either. Like Mero, all he'd done was spoken his mind -- and it just happened that the words weren't complimentary to AYS. To my knowledge, neither Mero or Wil has ever said anything that just about everyone hasn't at least thought at some point. They both just had the guts to put their feelings out there in public instead of keeping them inside.

At that point, there was nothing regarding "forum abuse" in AYS' Terms of Service and to me, that made what happened to both Mero and Wil even worse since both had supposedly broken some rule that didn't even exist!

But then the Terms were changed and a Forum Abuse clause was added.

Now personally, I still didn't like it one bit....BUT....I also realize that the owners of any program can put just about anything they want to in their Terms and as we all know so well, with 99% of PTRs, it's clearly spelled out that if changes are made we don't like, then our only recourse is to leave. This doesn't mean it's right.......But it is the way it is and if we stay in a program despite having changes made to the Terms we disagree with, then we've made the unspoken choice to abide by those changes, like it or not. This also doesn't mean it's right....But, again, it's the way it is!

So this brings us to AN1 who has continued to rant and rave endlessly about all the things she perceives to be wrong with AYS long after that clause was added to AYS' Terms.

The exact wording of that clause makes any violation suspect, as it refers to "libel" and as we all know (or should know at least since it's been discussed so much in so many different places), it isn't libel if it's true. And the wording of that clause is not clear as to whether it's referring specifically to the AYS Forum or to all forums in general. If anything, IMO it implies pretty strongly that it's talking about the AYS Forum solely since that is the only forum mentioned within that particular clause.

It was because this clause is so vague that I asked Linder point-blank in his own forum exactly who it was who would be responsible for deciding if a comment was, indeed, libelous. He replied that if desired, he would let a court of law make that determination. He didn't imply that he would initiate anything and I took his reply to mean that if anyone wanted to dispute a "forum abuse" issue based on the accusation of libel, that they were more than welcome to pursue it legally and he would abide by the court's decision, regardless of how it went.

So, to me, there are a couple of questions this all raises:

1. Has AN1 made any sort of comment that is libelous (as in knowingly not true)? IMO, speaking solely as a layperson who is not a lawyer and doesn't claim to be one -- I think the answer is probably No, she hasn't. My reason for saying this is that despite the fact that she keeps going on and on and on about the same old same old we've all heard 100 times before, the fact remains that I've never seen her say anything that wasn't based in fact.

2. With $230 in her account, and knowing 2 people had already been suspended from AYS for much less, PLUS, having knowledge of the new "forum abuse" clause added to the AYS Terms, did AN1 show a serious lack of judgement in continuing her rants? Again, JMO of course...the answer to this question has to be a huge "YES." Whether the previous suspensions were right or wrong doesn't matter at this point --- all that matters is that they had occurred and she knew it --- AND she knew the Terms now covered the issue of "forum abuse" and so to continue on seems to me to be a blatant way of saying, "pssssttttt on your Terms - I don't have to follow them if I don't want to, so there."

With $230 at risk, that's just plain stupid, IMO (and kind of odd since she made it a point to NOT post in the AYS Forum, seemingly out of fear of losing that money).

But she made her choice and I think now she's at the point where instead of ranting on and on about collection agencies, and how if AYS had just paid HER when they should have then there never would have been a problem (not sure why simply paying her would have made a difference unless she really doesn't care whether anybody else gets paid as long as she gets hers)...If AN1 really wants to put her money where her mouth is, she should take Linder up on his offer of letting a court decide if she has ever posted a libelous statement.

If she's willing to do that, it could be a very decisive moment for the entire PTR industry as it would be a true test of the legality of a program's TOS, particularly from the standpoint of one program owner being able to legally dictate what a person can and cannot say elsewhere. And it just might define more clearly exactly what is and what isn't "libel" by law, rather than personal opinion.

The Supreme Court once ruled that "obscenity is in the eye of the beholder." Maybe it's time for 'libel' to be put to a similar test and settle the ongoing debate about it once and for all....this couldn't hurt any of us and, in fact, it could prove to be very beneficial for all.

I, for one, would be very interested to see what the end result of such a court case would be, assuming it would ever make it to court, of course. We see the words 'libel' and 'slander' thrown around so much -- here's a chance to put that to an end.

This would also be a good test of my "it's not what you say, it's how you say it" theory since I still firmly believe that comments that are actually true can give the appearance of being libelous simply through choice of words.

At this point, though, the choice is entirely up to AN1.

Whew...if you made it this far, thank you for reading such a long post.

[Mallerie]

This would also be a good test of my "it's not what you say, it's how you say it" theory since I still firmly believe that comments that are actually true can give the appearance of being libelous simply through choice of words.


what proves this true crusader is all the things youve said in complants with ays yet YOU arent deleted. i cant be completely sure but im 99% sure its because you know how to speak.

lets take government.

can you mail letters to your senator or congressman if you want? sure you can.

can you write letters once a week full of 4 letter words and insults and hate and blaming them repeatedly for all thats wrong with the country? can you get away with it? or will someone eventually stpe in and say STOP IT. depending on the words that get used hell they can look at it as personal harrassment and threats.

do you thinkt he same results would happen if you wrote letters once a week poitely giving your thoughts and opinions on issues in a civil manner with no personal insults and hate?

my "vote" is no, it wouldnt be the same.

my opinin is always going to be NO ONE has the right to be as verbally abusve as they feel like and then hide behind the 'freedom of speech'. just beacuse there might be some truth tossed in doesnt make it any LESS verbally abusive. for those that cant figure out the difference it makes in how you choose your words and how you present yourself youll allways be at odds with this concept and continue to get deleted, banned, ostracized, etc. those that act that way just ASK for it.


Mal

[Tmarie99]

Bottom line.... The owner of the forum can run it any way they feel. Don't like it? LEAVE. But please, please, please for the love of God, stop complaining about it. You know the site is a rip. You know the owner is a childish twit who deserves to be run out. You know the people in power will follow you around the internet (sick freaks) and punish you for expressing your opinion.
LEAVE IT.

I mean... File a complaint, warn others, but these silly, childish fights (and we are ALL guilty of it) are giving them the best advertising possible... Free.

[Asleepyma]

You're kidding right? That link is to a company designed to help businesses.
Their TOS, which YOU read and YOU agreed to, states that there is no definite time that you will be paid.
Hello there,

As for AYS, I DELETED THEM!!!! TOS the ever changing TOS of AYS--baaa

Far as I'm concerned, I not only deleted them BUT send them a contact email.

I told them that, as far as I can see that their active member count is not correct. The belief is that with them always changing the TOS is to enable them in not paying out in real cash.

I requested a payout and they after many months put a 1 point down for 'processing a partical payout'. It's been almost a yr and waiting for a payout not coming to me.

They won't do a payout online but, want members to prove they have an e-gold acct by sending them a copy of a bill with your address and a copy of your driver's lic.

Well, now I've didn't get a copy of their driver's lic. so, I can enlarge it for my pin board (I can draw a target game on it!!)

Most pd emails of their's is opening to AYS about sponser id's incorrect, invalid or cannot be found------that's cause they deleted the program in disgust or they been deleted by AYS for threads on forums they responded to truthfully or AYS owes $$$ or both. AYS cannot stand the truth getting out about them.

The fact that some truthfull member's message in a thread do get edited by AYS.

AYS should be in voilation of that forum's web site's rules of use and get AYS banned from use. However, I don't see that happening any time soon.

Protection of Self is the word for the day!! Preview your Post, make a copy to a word pad file, Submit Reply. Then, look at the reply that you posted and email yourself a copy of the post right away to 1 or 2 email inboxes you get email and keep your proof.

With proof, email the web site admin and forward copy of the post you emailed yourself. Then, wait and see the admin. response to your email. Then, you'll know WHOM IS IN CHARGE OF THE FORUM WEBSITE AND IF IT'S NOT AYS----THEN WITH MANY COMPLAINS TO ADMIN---AYS, WILL BE SUSPENDED OR BANNED FROM USING THE FORUM.

Just a thought.

Asleepyma

[bellestraker]

Quote ani

Lil Crusader, there aren't too many folks posting in these forums who don't say the same things over and over. Go back and look at people's posts. Same old same old, you do it, everyone does it. As Mero says, use the same standards you judge me with on everyone else and you might realize you're singleing me out for other reasons. Also, I don't have a problem with people who don't agree with me, ask wagdoll and Anonymous and a few others. I can respectfully let other's have an opinion. It's the defending of losers and abusers that I have a problem with. If someone said, "Ok, you're right Ani but I just want to be real quiet and wait for my payout and not make waves," then I'd have a lot more respect for them. They don't do that, though. They pounce on everyone. They made up lies and gossip about me without even doing the research then posted things as if they were true...and you don't say anything about that, Lil Crusader







Do you even realize what you say. I guess after so long with no-one listening you also have gotten a little careless.
So if they say

Quote
"Ok, you're right Ani but I just want to be real quiet and wait for my payout and not make waves,"

then its ok and they wont bear the brunt of your cruelty ( Gimmee a break)

If this is just bashing you for your "stand" do you not ever wonder why the same thing ends up happening to EVERY ONE of your multiple personalities.


I was one who did not know anything about your grandmother story but find it strange that for someone who crusades to "tell the truth"..and who ALWAYS drags out every old and tired ( even occasionally accurate) story about ays and others..over and over..and ...

But when it comes to your goof ups ( to me far worse than any ays issue simply because anything that happened with ays I think reasonable people agree they never started out with any intent to be late in payment etc.and I am sure most people do not start a company set up to deal with fanatic bashers.

. So if we stick just to the real stories...I wonder who bears closer scrutiny.

Ays is a program run by People and you are a Person...Why is it right for you to follow every mention of ays and start on your abusive insults yet I will bet ( and have seen it happen) that anytime someone does not agree with you or says anything which you consider "nasty " toward you...You run for the mods and start wailing about "no personal insults"
BUT its ok for you to follow them around and bash steady and they should just bend over and take it.

It is THEIR program and if they are tired of your 24 x 7 bashing..they have the right to delete you.

Do they have the right to delete anyone with a legitimate bad comment or opinion ( Or many) about their site..NO

And if someone was deleted who I had not constantly seen bashing over and over again..THEN I would take issue with it.

In your case

Good riddance.

Belle

ps...Some more I see that anyone who doesnt agree is sucking up
And about staying on why you were deleted. Who has hyjacked about 90% of any ays threads to tell YOUR OPINION.Some say..2 wrongs dont make a right...I say " Turn about is fair play"

The more I read the more i want to add.( About all threats of legal action from anyone)
It seems to me that many who do not want to take this to court themselves for whatever reason try very hard to get someone else to do it for them. Many times to the point of an almost "Double dare"
Why?? If it was that important to me I would find a way to get it in.
I guess for any of us "really interested" if it is so important to find out...then let everyone who wails about it put their money where their mouth is.

The BBB
It will be a hoot next time someone want to run an ad and (naturally like we all do) they call the Better Business Bureau" who informs them..."Goodness Do not redeem for that site" They are on our books.

Doesnt that sound ridiculous - I HOPE so.

[wagdoll]

I havent read all of jypsy/starfire/wily/ani's posts, but I dont remember any starting out as personal attacks against anyone. What I do remember is seeing her make a post saying a po is behind for instance then get a lot of personal attacks in return.

I've disagreed with her in the past but she hasnt to my recollection made personal attacks against me, and I havent against her. I've disagreed with a lot of people's posts on forums but I try not to make personal attacks against those posters. Why do we have to reply with personal remarks so often?

So, mike and linder paid jypsy when she was in trouble... That was nice of them. Woulda been nicer imho if they had just paid her within their tos in the first place then there wouldnt be nasty comments about her going to the front of the queue or any need for her to be paid ahead of anyone else. If they hadnt been behind tos i doubt strongly she would have posted in gd of gpf about being in trouble and waiting on payouts making the problems seem even worse.

That they did something positive for her back then, and she admits she was/is grateful for that, does that mean that forever more she must not say a word against them even when they do things she strongly disagrees with that hurt not only her but a LOT of others too?

How would we like it if every time we said 'such a po is late with payments, dont like the way they treat members' what we got in return was our personal history was dissected bit by bit, with lies and false accusations and personal attacks?

I dont know that ani has been spreading lies, yes she might have harped onto issues that she felt were important enough to repeat herself or to try very hard to get answers from po's - instead of answers she got personal attacks from at least one of them. And from another she has been deleted with the loss of $230 earnings.

Was that money earned before or after she started commenting on their lateness and actions? I think that is important. If they had paid on time, she might have simply unsubbed and spoken out with them unable to delete her or take back the money. But because they were late they have the privelege of doing this? Is that right? Not for me. It's probably ok with a lot of others though.

Another question I have is where did linder get the information that jypsy had posted 'bad' things against ays? I've heard it said that jypsy didnt post on their forum, she didnt post with her name on any other forum either? She didnt admit until now that she was using other names, so where did their info come from? Hearsay?? I dont think hearsay is a good enough reason to delete someone. Or did ays get the info from some other program or forum violating their own tos and passing on the username/ip/pc id info to ays? I've seen a lot of people say that they never use the same username in programs that they use on forums so that they can speak out when things arent right without risking their accounts - are all those people at risk now from hearsay or privacy violations?

[bellestraker]

Quote Wagdoll

Another question I have is where did linder get the information that jypsy had posted 'bad' things against ays? I've heard it said that jypsy didnt post on their forum, she didnt post with her name on any other forum either? She didnt admit until now that she was using other names, so where did their info come from? Hearsay?? I dont think hearsay is a good enough reason to delete someone. Or did ays get the info from some other program or forum violating their own tos and passing on the username/ip/pc id info to ays? I've seen a lot of people say that they never use the same username in programs that they use on forums so that they can speak out when things arent right without risking their accounts - are all those people at risk now from hearsay or privacy violations
.................................................. ..............................




Two things come to mind with this post. One...I have seen many cases of rudeness by Wily and constant bashing. One thing that surprises me is what IMO is the underhandedness of pretending she was not a member of ays and telling everyone else to get out etc. while she is hiding behind several assumed names to keep her account but still bash steady.

Many of her posts implied that she was fairly well off and although I do not recall for sure if she actually said she did not belong to the site...she sure left that impression and obviously wanted others to think she didnt.

She spoke constantly of the moral high ground which IMO would not include constant knocking while hiding behind fictitious names to get the bucks and still continually bash everyone else who was a member ( Just like her)

You are right..If ays were not behind she may not have felt the need to carry on... but once again...if I am going to defend ays I am sure not going to say.."They pay fast" - Linder never gets mad... Sharon is a ***** cat."

All IMO not true...so why do the bashers have to pepper everything with inuendo and flat out lies.

If I am going to be really honest I do have to admit that I found Wilys posts ( On their own) not really so off the wall as some.
I think in her case it was usually the combined posts between her and freebie ( who usually happened...to be in the forum at the same time) and who between the two were not only rude and abusive but who seemed to find some thrill in chasing off anyone who opposed them.

So where does something turn from an opinion ( even a bad one) into harrasment and bashing.

I am certainly not qualified to decide that but if I owned a site I would sure quickly designate myself qualified re: MY site.

I would not consider Opinions against ays - even oft. repeated to be - bashing or offensive unless they became constant, overbearing, repetetive (numerous times) and generally rude.

It is pretty easy to spot when someone only sees or reacts to bad things...Where the mention of the most trivial thing can bring on a barrage of bashing about every issue since they opened.

Many of the so called bad things were not based in any fact.

I just read the portion of your post quoted above and will bet that the one line..asking how did Linder get the information will turn into a " Did you know that Linder even gets info from other sites" or at best...I heard that etc. etc.

I know I am rambling ( again) but seeing her on here saying others should go to collection agencies etc. ( which will cost them money they probably do not have to spare) when she has been the one for a very long time constantly harping that her lawyers were going to show Linder where the bear **** in the buckwheat.

Well go show him - then come back and let the others know so they dont waste their money because someone they may think knows what they are talking about puts the word in for what is very likely a losing proposition.

What does all this have to do with Wagdoll...Probably not a lot lol...but I picked on your one sentence. Sorry about that but have seen those one sentence questions become fact by morning.

How did THEY ( anyone) know they were the same person...She has a pretty distinct manner of writing and after time I am sure it wouldnt be too hard to tell.

I belonged to another site ( who owed me as much as ays did when they made the bash rule for their forum.)
I immediately deleted that account simply because I had seen cases where people who said they did not like the wait or knocked the program were deleted.

Whats the difference then with ays.??
I have never seen anyone deleted for simply stated their opinion ( even often) Only after constant bashing.

Would you really care to have a member who "at every opportunity" knocks you.Do you think that is good for business or helpful in any way.
Someone mentioned freecash ( Wil) He bashed ( AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY) for a very long time - even admitted that he liked to be a **** disturber and my only surprise there was that it took so long.It is a game with him.

Am I ever losing my train of thought but am too lazy to try to write this and it would only end up worse.

Basher= Person who knocks "at every possible opportunty"

Belle

[BobbiePolk]

Thought this was appropriate....:hehe:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/BobbiePolk/Avatars/7_11_5.gif

[AnI4AnI]

I don't recall "denying" being a member of any of the sites that I spoke out about. I remember telling people over and over again that it didn't matter whether I was a member or not because they always always always deflected from the issues by targeting me in one way or another. Never failed. If they couldn't answer a question, they got ugly with me. I made a point of repeating that it made no difference whether I was a member or not over and over. This happened in Aprils, AYS and Annies threads because people couldn't stick to the topic, they had to shoot the messenger.

Lil Crusader, I'm not going to hush up about abuse and fraud just because some self-centered psycho program owner tries to blackmail me with my own money. If that's what YOU choose to do, then so be it but I can't be bought that easily.

Also, I didn't know confronting POs about things was forum abuse. Again, you're making a huge mistake by blaming me. You need to think about it some more. I defended myself against supporters because THEY attacked, pestered and badgered me simply for asking uncomfortable questions. WE have a right to know what the financial status of a site is if we are spending our time on it. WE have a right to know what the PO intends to do about payouts. WE have a right to know whether or not they're just raking in the cash from support links while only paying one or two people every now and then. WE have a right to know WHEN to expect payout so WE can get on with our lives and STOP wasting our time on sites that will never, ever pay us.

I'm not taking the rap for this, sorry. I'm not about to be blackmailed into silence. I'm also not about to let this go. I'll expect my $230 in the mail within the next 3 weeks. If they choose NOT to pay, I have my OWN Terms of Service.

[kglaser]

Thought this was appropriate....:hehe:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/BobbiePolk/Avatars/7_11_5.gif

LOL! :laugh:

[AnI4AnI]

Wow, I've never seen so many suck-ups in my life. Don't you guys have love letters to Scott Peterson to write?

[BobbiePolk]

Wow, I've never seen so many suck-ups in my life. Don't you guys have love letters to Scott Peterson to write?

Actually, I hope they fry Scott to a crisp. JMO though. ;)

[teedy]

Hello there,

As for AYS, I DELETED THEM!!!! TOS the ever changing TOS of AYS--baaa

Far as I'm concerned, I not only deleted them BUT send them a contact email.

I told them that, as far as I can see that their active member count is not correct. The belief is that with them always changing the TOS is to enable them in not paying out in real cash.

I requested a payout and they after many months put a 1 point down for 'processing a partical payout'. It's been almost a yr and waiting for a payout not coming to me.

They won't do a payout online but, want members to prove they have an e-gold acct by sending them a copy of a bill with your address and a copy of your driver's lic.

Well, now I've didn't get a copy of their driver's lic. so, I can enlarge it for my pin board (I can draw a target game on it!!)

Most pd emails of their's is opening to AYS about sponser id's incorrect, invalid or cannot be found------that's cause they deleted the program in disgust or they been deleted by AYS for threads on forums they responded to truthfully or AYS owes $$$ or both. AYS cannot stand the truth getting out about them.

The fact that some truthfull member's message in a thread do get edited by AYS.

AYS should be in voilation of that forum's web site's rules of use and get AYS banned from use. However, I don't see that happening any time soon.

Protection of Self is the word for the day!! Preview your Post, make a copy to a word pad file, Submit Reply. Then, look at the reply that you posted and email yourself a copy of the post right away to 1 or 2 email inboxes you get email and keep your proof.

With proof, email the web site admin and forward copy of the post you emailed yourself. Then, wait and see the admin. response to your email. Then, you'll know WHOM IS IN CHARGE OF THE FORUM WEBSITE AND IF IT'S NOT AYS----THEN WITH MANY COMPLAINS TO ADMIN---AYS, WILL BE SUSPENDED OR BANNED FROM USING THE FORUM.

Just a thought.

Asleepyma


Run that by me again, Or Am I the only one that is thinking "Say what"???

[lil crusader]

Lil Crusader, I'm not going to hush up about abuse and fraud just because some self-centered psycho program owner tries to blackmail me with my own money. If that's what YOU choose to do, then so be it but I can't be bought that easily.

Also, I didn't know confronting POs about things was forum abuse. Again, you're making a huge mistake by blaming me. I'm not taking the rap for this, sorry.
<snip>
I'm not about to be blackmailed into silence. I'm also not about to let this go. I'll expect my $230 in the mail within the next 3 weeks. If they choose NOT to pay, I have my OWN Terms of Service.

Sigh....did you even read my previous post? If so, you'd better re-read it because you obviously missed the point entirely.

[Dawn Michelle]

Wow, I've never seen so many suck-ups in my life. Don't you guys have love letters to Scott Peterson to write?

Why are people who have a different opinion than yours suck-ups? Isn't anybody allowed to disagree with you without being called names. :cool:

[AnI4AnI]

Sigh....did you even read my previous post? If so, you'd better re-read it because you obviously missed the point entirely.

Yes, I read it Pam. I take offense to your description of me "ranting and raving". I know what a rant is and I seldom resort to it. I generally just say what's on my mind. If you describe my posts as "rants and raves" then you must also include 99% of the rest of the members or are we confusing that with people's expressions and personalities? I think half the problem is that people don't like me so they lean toward trying to figure out ways to disagree with me rather than focusing on specific issues. Amazing how that works. Not saying you do that but I've had the unique experience to watch it unfold right before my eyes. Weird. So, is it wrong of me when I see a thread veering off into personal insult territory to try to get it back on topic by repeating what the issues were or should I have just bickered back and forth with those who aren't really interested in discussing the issues, some of whom don't sound much more than 14 years old anyway? Should I have ignored all the verbal assaults hurled at me when folks didn't have a rebuttal? Should I have responded by slinking away when they made up lies about me or started invading my privacy?

I changed my username so I could have the liberty to say what I wanted about certain programs without being deleted. I told the truth. They deleted me. Not that deleting me dissolves their debt with me but if that's what they want to believe, that's up to them.

Now I have a question for all of you. Are you going to let this incident frighten you into burying your heads deeper in the sand, tiptoe around making sure you don't say the slightest thing wrong against them, walk on eggshells, be manipulated by their blackmail or are any of you going to recognize that this is totally ridiculous and step up to the plate and confront Linder about it? Or do you think it isn't your problem until it happens to you?

Pam, you should know that in most people's minds, "forum abuse" would mean swearing and cussing, rude and obnoxious posts, stalking, harassing, etc. An intelligent opinion does NOT constitute "forum abuse". You know as well as I do they used that as an excuse out of spite. I wasn't even posting in their forum.

I'm not going to take responsibility for other people's character flaws, especially Linders. No, I don't think it was "just plain stupid" of me to try to warn unsuspecting newbies about their arrogance and horrendously late payouts. I risked my earnings for selfless reasons...I don't see that as stupid at all.

For you to suggest I go to court when I can barely even keep a roof over my head is simply bizarre. But then, it's easier to point the finger at me, isn't it?

[AnI4AnI]

Why are people who have a different opinion than yours suck-ups? Isn't anybody allowed to disagree with you without being called names. :cool:

It isn't people who have a different opinion, it's people who continue to defend AYS after all the glaring evidence of the unorthodox business ethics, the abuse, the arrogance, the unfair deletion of accounts, the breaking of their own terms regarding privacy, etc. It's just appalling to see them still bowing down to him like in some mad, weird cult. I'm wondering if he will have something "tasty" for his followers to sip when he breaks the news he isn't going to pay the vast majority of his members and he wants to change it all to points and open another site for search ads only.

[Meroveus]

I don't think anyone's listening to anyone else much anymore. Lots of good points are being ignored by both sides.

Lil Crusader remarked that she has been booted from April's forum for saying what she believes. Does that blow the "not what you say but how you say it" theory out of the water, for which Pam has been used as an example? I think so.

Another interesting point: Wagdoll stated that AnI didn't instigate personal attacks: she criticized programs, then RECEIVED personal attacks in return. The same is true of Freebie, from what I saw. She criticized a program, then SHE as a person was attacked, then she defended herself in kind figuring what's good for one side must be okay for the other. She was banned, and those who attacked her remain.

AnI, there are some people who will refuse to see your side no matter what - that's always true in life - but you're getting more support than you seem to be reading, maybe because the criticisms mixed in cause you to miss it. Suzy stated that you were, at the very least, not the only person who made mistakes in all that mess. Lil Crusader disagreed with your methods, but she also disagreed with your punitive deletion. I am passing no judgment in either direction on your actions with this grandmother thing since I wasn't there, but I do disagree with both your banning from GPF (then again, I'm just not wild about bannings in general) and your deletion from AYS. You are receiving a lot of support for the things that really count, i.e. your right to forums and programs.

Let me ask a simple question: can you name an owner of a sustainable, paying program who has had to ban anyone from their forum?

Mero

[cheryllynn]

I don't recall "denying" being a member of any of the sites that I spoke out about.

No, you never did admit or deny it - just rudely told people it was none of their business. Some of us figured it out anyway...


I remember telling people over and over again that it didn't matter whether I was a member or not because they always always always deflected from the issues by targeting me in one way or another. Never failed. If they couldn't answer a question, they got ugly with me.


More like the other way around -


I made a point of repeating that it made no difference whether I was a member or not over and over. This happened in Aprils, AYS and Annies threads because people couldn't stick to the topic, they had to shoot the messenger.


Another pack of lies - there are nice threads about AYS that you hijacked. And if people didn't give in to you, you would start posting drivel about length of signatures, etc.... you would just change the entire subject.

You need to get a HUGE clue....


Lil Crusader, I'm not going to hush up about abuse and fraud just because some self-centered psycho program owner tries to blackmail me with my own money. If that's what YOU choose to do, then so be it but I can't be bought that easily.


Oh, we have a personal attack here?? Just like the starfire / wiley who I always thought was the same person from day one...

You REALLY need to give it up ..... take my word for it.


Also, I didn't know confronting POs about things was forum abuse. Again, you're making a huge mistake by blaming me. You need to think about it some more. I defended myself against supporters because THEY attacked, pestered and badgered me simply for asking uncomfortable questions. WE have a right to know what the financial status of a site is if we are spending our time on it. WE have a right to know what the PO intends to do about payouts. WE have a right to know whether or not they're just raking in the cash from support links while only paying one or two people every now and then. WE have a right to know WHEN to expect payout so WE can get on with our lives and STOP wasting our time on sites that will never, ever pay us.


More lies.


I'm not taking the rap for this, sorry. I'm not about to be blackmailed into silence. I'm also not about to let this go. I'll expect my $230 in the mail within the next 3 weeks. If they choose NOT to pay, I have my OWN Terms of Service.

More lies.

You need to stop running your mouth while you're still a hair ahead... you talk all this ****, but guess what? When it comes down to walking the walk, all you got is the talk.

You say you struggle trying to keep a roof over your head - yet in another post you talk about "your lawyers." YOUR LAWYERS???????? How can you afford lawyers on retainer if you can barely live?? Heck, how are you affording that internet service? I see you never answered that person's question. Typical starfire / wiley.

You insinuate that you are this big important person and that people should watch out when they disagree with you ... HAH! You are no better than anyone else - chickie - you put your pants on the same way everyone else does. By your own admittance, you have nothing.

Or maybe you do, and you do this to scam people out of money? Once greedy, always greedy.

You just don't get it, and you never will. You're locked in that tunnel. You have totally lost ALL respect from anyone out there..

Just for the record, if I owned ays, I would have deleted you long ago - your posts weren't just acceptable complaints - they were filled with lies and total complete bashing. No job in the real world would keep an employee that did that. None.

Cheryl

[CTaylor]

Just curious, An1...

What happens after three weeks? (I believe that was your threat, please correct me if I'm wrong)

[moniopt]

Man! Some of you can be nasty and ignorant.

Hang in there AnI4AnI! ;) Looks like your on receiving end of a typical wolf pack personal attack by those that will defend AYS with unconditional support. You certainly don't deserve the nastiness coming your way as it is....

I mean NASTY! :( It goes on and on....

[wagdoll]

I noticed on another forum where people where asking (demanding almost), to know how ani affords internet service. I think questions like these are totally unnecessary to anyone no matter what they have said are their personal circumstances.

I think this is stemming from people saying that wily claimed to be able to afford lawyers while jypsy actually was honest about a lot of her personal finances. Neither, imho, gives anyone the right to demand to know where she gets her money or how she chooses to spend what she has.

Why do some of us feel this desperate need (and I have a 'friend' who constantly does this with me) to tell other people how to live just because of their financial straits?

How effective would it be for someone who was wronged by a program to say, I think what you are doing is wrong but nm I dont have the money to go to a lawyer for advice? So sometimes people bluster - so what?

Meroveus, there might well be owners of sustainable programs who have removed people from their forums (maybe their programs too) for telling lies all over the place. A lie, I would say might be, 'x program is 6 months late' when in fact they are one week late. I dont remember offhand any deleting members from their program for telling the truth or harping on about something which is true but could be considered negative publicity.

I think subjectivity is coming into play heavily here. What one person considers a rant or a lie seems to be different from another's interpretation. That is one reason why I dont like to see terms say that members will/may be deleted for subjective reasons eg 'dissing the wm'.

[AnI4AnI]

I think subjectivity is coming into play heavily here. What one person considers a rant or a lie seems to be different from another's interpretation. That is one reason why I dont like to see terms say that members will/may be deleted for subjective reasons eg 'dissing the wm'.

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head here. It all ties in to the "wanting to control things they have no control over" attitude. Instead of running a good program, they use tactics like that.

Mero, thanks. I guess I wasn't seeing a whole lot of support.

Monio, thanks also. I guess the AYS-Gate cult members are preparing for that glorious rapture, that holy day when they'll all miraculously get paid because they were loyal and obediant servants to their slave-mastah. I guess they also know who they are... ;)

[lil crusader]

sigh....I'm personally giving up on this thread. I tried to encourage an1 to post in AYS' Forum, but she never would and instead chooses to imply that I'm being "blackmailed" into silence by Linder when it's pretty much common knowledge that I post in the AYS Forum frequently.

I also told her I didn't think she'd ever said anything "libelous" and as such, was in a perfect position to challenge her deletion under the forum abuse clause that deals specifically with libelous comments and is unclear about the location of such comments. Again, she chooses not to do anything except "demand" that she get paid within 3 weeks or else (paraphrasing here obviously).

Sometimes you just can't get through to a person no matter how hard you try, so I'm tired of trying. This is someone who is evidently happy in playing the part of a martyr and I don't think anyone is ever going to change that. The best thing we can all do is just move on and leave an1 to wallow happily in her own self-pity.

P.S. I personally don't care how she pays for her internet....There are months when it's a challenge for me too, but I have to have DSL for my job and so I find a way....I'm certainly not going to criticize anyone else for having the same problem as me.

[AnI4AnI]

Pam, for one thing, I can't post there as I can't login and for another, you encouraged me to take this whole thing to court, at my expense, just to get re-instated without even getting my money, and to set some kind of precedent for everyone else. I thought that was totally ridiculous. I could give a rat's behind whether I'm in their database or not. I just want the money they owe me.

I'm really sorry you think I'm wallowing in self-pity. I thought we were discussing issues that everyone had an interest in, or at least conscientious folks who like visiting forums.

[cheryllynn]

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head here. It all ties in to the "wanting to control things they have no control over" attitude. Instead of running a good program, they use tactics like that.

Mero, thanks. I guess I wasn't seeing a whole lot of support.

Monio, thanks also. I guess the AYS-Gate cult members are preparing for that glorious rapture, that holy day when they'll all miraculously get paid because they were loyal and obediant servants to their slave-mastah. I guess they also know who they are... ;)

Still not answering for your actions, I see....

As to moni and whoever ... what, you can't handle people who are exposing wiley/starfire for what she is? What's it to you anyway?

Cheryl

[AnI4AnI]

Slurp Slurp, Cheryl

Hallelujah! :laugh:

[cheryllynn]

Slurp Slurp, Cheryl

Hallelujah! :laugh:


YOu STILL can't answer for your actions, can ya? Forget the lies you told? Why don't you go back and do a search for your stuff so you can figure it out....

Cheryl

[Styr]

Mero: how about Mike from hauling cash?

[kglaser]

Another dead-on post, Pam. It's like talking to a brick wall.

[CTaylor]

You can post at AYS under "Jypsy" and you know it.

I see you completely avoided answering the question about your veiled three week threat. Go figure.

[moniopt]

Still not answering for your actions, I see....

As to moni and whoever ... what, you can't handle people who are exposing wiley/starfire for what she is? What's it to you anyway?

Cheryl

What she is??? It's more like the people that are ripping her for what they are. It's not a pretty evaluation from where I stand.

Some of you are polite and will come across in a way that is, well, not going for the throat. lil crusader and a one are two others are an example of that.

However, when people start making someone's unfortunate situation in their personal life, an issue, that is a total different story.

What does it matter how someone is able to afford a lawyer ort Internet service. For the record, in the U.S....you don't need a lot of money to file a suit and get represented. There is help for that on the federal; state and local level for that if you look hard enough. Besides, if it’s the money that one is looking to get back, it would fall in smalls claim court and you won’t need a lawyer for that. Who's business is it of anyone to know another persons personal financial affairs or otherwise. That's when I have to say; it's none of anyone's business.

Man, some people are really way off base without question. It’s funny, from what I see, most of them seem to be AYS supporters.

[AnI4AnI]

Cheryl, I don't have to answer to you. What ever gave you the impression I had any obligation whatsoever to "do research" about myself? Are you guys really this blind to the fact that there are quite a few intelligent people around who have been deleted from AYS simply because Linder and Sharon don't like seeing the truth about themselves?

I said before I'm not responding to certain people and I have no intention of bickering back and forth about irrelevant things. This is about AYS deleting me for telling the truth. It isn't about my internet access or lawyers or grandmothers or anything else. Please stay on topic.

[teedy]

For you to suggest I go to court when I can barely even keep a roof over my head is simply bizarre. But then, it's easier to point the finger at me, isn't it?

Okay this line is worrying me An141 I do understand that you havent' got the finances to take anyone to court, neither have most people including Myself,

But the original topic was telling people to take certain actions, go to this collection agency etc , You have yourself done that much HAVEN'T YOU?
If I was thinking of doing something like that I would say to you, ok what was the response time after you initially contacted this collection agency, did they give you a receipt promptly what are they going to do now etc etc, Have they a timeframe , what do they say is your chance of a outcome in your favor?? Or the kind of result you are looking for!!

Its not like Ays have booted ME so everyone else go pay that fee and try to do something???

The title always confused me a bit,
Ays deleted ME fight back people,

Like you are saying fight back for WHO?

[AnI4AnI]

You can post at AYS under "Jypsy" and you know it.

I see you completely avoided answering the question about your veiled three week threat. Go figure.

Actually, I tried logging in the other day and couldn't. It's nice to know someone knows so much more about my access than I do, though. I'll be sure to touch base with you the next time I have trouble with logging in to one of my accounts. As for your second question, I will consider my options once the 3 weeks is up and if I haven't received the money they owe me, I'll go from there. Is that all right with you or should I get pre-approved by you before I take steps to collect this debt?

[CTaylor]

Ok. I guess I fall under the category of "certain people".

I'll simply say this....you are capable of posting at AYS, and I personally think it would be a great way for you to get some answers instead of posting elsewhere and giving ultimatums. I'm done with this thread.

Good luck to you.

edited to say that we posted at the same time. thanks for responding

[AnI4AnI]

Teedy, for years some of the most brilliant minds in these forums have been hashing and rehashing the standard Terms of Service, exactly what they mean and whether or not they are even legal. Discussions have taken place about a member's recourse with non-paying program owners and whether or not members have any. Several people have offered insight and expertise on these issues, most of which can be found in the older threads at GPF.

Since the jurisdictions of members and POs thwart most attempts to go to small claims court, the next logical step would be to hire a collection agency, one of which has answered me. Here is an excerpt from that email:

Thank you for taking the time to explain your business and collection
requirements to me. I believe we will be able to help collect on the
outstanding debts you have.-Shawn Springer/Impact Collections

Having received that, I thought it would be the right thing to do to share it with others who are sick and tired of waiting for their money and that regardless of what the self-serving TOS says, people have a right to collect on their debts, especially if they've been waiting 9 months for payout before AYS goes belly-up or disappears without a trace.

Taking it a step further, I realized that there's a possibility, or rather probability that AYS will just scoff at any attempts made BUT the good thing about filing with a collection agency is that it will be reported to the credit bureaus and THAT might be the only thing we have going for us right now. So, even if I never see my money, at least it will be documented in their credit history and if enough other people do the same thing, it might deter them from being able to operate other scams online. So, that was what I meant by FIGHT BACK. We can and we should.

[impergraf]

Jypsy, starfire, wily, an14an1 or whatever, you will never see another dime from me or AYS. You went "off the clock" when you started with your non-stop harassment of myself, the AYS staff, the members and AYS as a whole. You're constant starting threads at GPF and hijacking other threads with your bashing, insulting, lying comments is harassment. At least the attorney I have talked to seems to think so. Also many other non legal types, including business owners.

If you had even a bit of common sense, you would knock off the threats. Comments like "If they choose NOT to pay, I have my OWN Terms of Service.", can be taken as a threat. Keep it up and we will see what your local police department thinks about your comments.

And the name calling. Keep that up as well.

As for the AYS forum, you have not been deleted or suspended from there, so you are lying once again about not being able to log in. Lost your password, then retrieve it.

You have taken, under false pretenses, money from many people, and you call others scams. I have never taken cash from a member. But have paid out to members well over $130,000 cash in nearly two years. Have you even bothered to try and pay the people back you took money from? Who is the real scam, Jypsy?

I suggest you go ahead and take action on your threats, because your non-stop tirades are going to get you into a whole lot of legal troubles that I doubt you have ever even considered.

As for your collection agency, I would have to be your customer (or former customer) for you to get any action at all. I did not purchase a product or service of yours, you are not running a business, hence you are ineligible for a collection service of this type. But be my guest and continue with it. Pay them the money and see where it takes you.

[teedy]

Hi Linder!! fancy seeing you here, ;)

I am on a roll today, I'm a finalist At studiotraffic competition,
lol its almost as good as winning, :hehe:

Sorry Ani for being offtopic , but as I said I'm on a roll :D

[AnI4AnI]

Just curious Linder, what did your lawyers say about inciting your members to SPAM me? Also, I was wondering how you could afford to go on vacation when you're SO far behind in payouts? Do your lawyers know how far behind you are? Do they know you keep changing your silly Terms of Service to suit your mood? First it was what, 30, 60, 90 days, then a reasonable time thereafter, then it was when we get money from our payment processors, then it was whenever we feel like it. Do they condone the fact that you've taken in thousands of dollars this year alone and you're still paying people from last December, 2003? Do your lawyers have an aversion to the truth or something? What will they do to me? Send me to Sing-Sing for writing in a forum?

You don't impress or intimidate me, little man.

[impergraf]

Just keep on talking, you are doing fine.

[AnI4AnI]

Funny, I thought this forum was a place to go when someone has an issue with Get-Paid programs, is it not? Was there something I missed? I would say you're the one threatening me.

[cheryllynn]

What she is??? It's more like the people that are ripping her for what they are. It's not a pretty evaluation from where I stand.

Some of you are polite and will come across in a way that is, well, not going for the throat. lil crusader and a one are two others are an example of that.

However, when people start making someone's unfortunate situation in their personal life, an issue, that is a total different story.

What does it matter how someone is able to afford a lawyer ort Internet service. For the record, in the U.S....you don't need a lot of money to file a suit and get represented. There is help for that on the federal; state and local level for that if you look hard enough. Besides, if it’s the money that one is looking to get back, it would fall in smalls claim court and you won’t need a lawyer for that. Who's business is it of anyone to know another persons personal financial affairs or otherwise. That's when I have to say; it's none of anyone's business.

Man, some people are really way off base without question. It’s funny, from what I see, most of them seem to be AYS supporters.

You missed the point - I was pointing out obvious lies -

And about the lawyer thing - if she is as broke as she claims to be, I highly doubt she has an atty on retainer.

Cheryl

[wagdoll]

Do ays tos state that a person will not be paid for the work they have done if they 'annoy' the po after that work is done and after the terms of payment of the original tos that they signed up under and did the work under have passed?

It seems to me as an outsider that Linder seems more concerned with threatening members who are unhappy with waiting in excess of 6 months for their payouts than with actually paying people in a more reasonable time frame. I dont care how much a program has paid out in the past, I dont care if they paid 10 people today who had been waiting 10 months for payout - I care more about how many are still waiting to be paid and how long they have been waiting and whether there actually is money in the coffers to pay those people.

We had a brief discussion on gpf about whether running a ponzi ptr might even be illegal in itself and a few people (not lawyers) thought it possible that it might be. I would love to see that tested in court so that we would know for sure. Running up so much debt in your business that your payments to creditors get later and later and never really addressing the issue or filing for bankruptcy doesnt seem quite right to me and ays appears to be one of the programs running in that kind of style.

[cheryllynn]

Cheryl, I don't have to answer to you. What ever gave you the impression I had any obligation whatsoever to "do research" about myself? Are you guys really this blind to the fact that there are quite a few intelligent people around who have been deleted from AYS simply because Linder and Sharon don't like seeing the truth about themselves?

I said before I'm not responding to certain people and I have no intention of bickering back and forth about irrelevant things. This is about AYS deleting me for telling the truth. It isn't about my internet access or lawyers or grandmothers or anything else. Please stay on topic.

This is about AYS deleting you for the LIES you told and the bashing that you did, and still do. This is some of us reminding others of your little psycho personalities running around while you were trying to act so high and mighty. Again... all talk....

Cheryl

[bellestraker]

Quote Moniopt

What does it matter how someone is able to afford a lawyer ort Internet service.

M some people are really way off base without question. It’s funny, from what I see, most of them seem to be AYS supporters.

.................................................. .................................................. ..............



It isnt ok to ask Ani,Wily, whoever anything about how they can afford to pay for things but its ok to ask Linder how he took his one week (or less) vacation)
Because he owes. Sounds like Miss Wily OWES also. So I guess it boils down to excuse a debt all you have to do is say.." I dont owe it"


What surprises and bothers me the most about this whole issue is the completely distorted playing field.

Someone can come in here...tell their sad story...then IMO scam people for money...never pay it back Then turn around and bash the hell out of anyone who mentions it and that is ok.

I keep hearing her say.." I am not the one who owes people etc."

How the hell do you possibly live with yourself knowing how bogus your claims are..How ridiculous your "Talk of the high ground" is.
You have literally RANTED for a very long time. I am not going to check your start date of anti ays bashing but I do know that it was months ago and mostly before any of the so called "Issues had even happened.

You have been bashing everyone with the "get out...How much money does it take to silence you blah and all the while you are slinking around hiding behind the palm tree so YOU dont forfeit anything.

Now that everyone knows - you give some meaningless excuse for YOUR behaviour and the moniopts of this forum jump right in.

How dare we pick on someone who had a personal problem"

Wake up moni...It was a bogus ploy for sympathy.

And if she should be paid because someone was ill...How many others do you think are in this forum who have FAR worse problems than she has....but does that matter - Of course not...Because ays is late in paying and that seems to excuse Anything.

You turn on a dime wily and if it isnt obvious to the newcomers it soon will be.

I do not like to bring up freebie only because she is not able to come in this forum but I am sure someone will carry it to her and she knows how to contact me if she has anything to say.

But the same thing applied there. She did an exact imitation ( In fact she was first) of your little act...Drag out that ays is behind...and why cant I do ANYTHING to get my money.

Well if anything includes what to me is stepping on fellow members, or throwing all self respect or class to the wind....Then she sidesteps with " Of course I say do whatever you can to get your money" and when we first read that... we all agree...
UNTIl we realize that EVERYTHING means ANYTHING.

I guess you guys have shown that you CAN.

Does that make it right.
NO

Will you stop.
Of course not...How else will you maintain your self importance.
I guess everyone wants to feel important. Just most of us prefer to feel that way because we earned it...Not because we can do the twist with every opposing viewpoint.

There are a few other constant anti ays members who are stating their opinions and saying what they find wrong but at least make a genuine effort to stick to facts. Funny we end up disagreeing ( But RESPECTING) htose members.

Does that not make you think that the reason most are against you may NOT be due to your STAND ( or lack of)on ays.

Belle

[impergraf]

We had a brief discussion on gpf about whether running a ponzi ptr might even be illegal in itself and a few people (not lawyers) thought it possible that it might be. I would love to see that tested in court so that we would know for sure. Running up so much debt in your business that your payments to creditors get later and later and never really addressing the issue or filing for bankruptcy doesnt seem quite right to me and ays appears to be one of the programs running in that kind of style.

Do you people even know what a ponzi scheme is? Go look up Charles Ponzi (in Google or Yahoo) and tell me exactly how it relates to AYS.

[wagdoll]

It isnt ok to ask Ani,Wily, whoever anything about how they can afford to pay for things but its ok to ask Linder how he took his one week (or less) vacation)

I thought about that too. I think there is a big difference in asking such things of an individual and asking them of a business that could well owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in outstanding debt to their creditors.

As for how I would feel if someone gave me something (money) when I was in need and then asked for it back and I didnt have it to give them, I dont know how I would feel. I dont think I would appreciate a lot of others making personal attacks based on that either.

It matters to me when anyone receives their earnings later than tos or 30 days whichever is the lowest - it matters more to me when you know they do have problems, regardless of who they are.

I wish I knew what they could do to get their money. It seems they cant go to court for it or use legal means, if they say anything about using legal means does that constitute threatening behaviour? If they make multiple posts in relevant forums on the subject in an effort to get the money or to educate and inform others, is that harassing?

Is there anyone who can tell me exactly what lies ani has been saying about ays? Not subjective things, not about her personal life, but straight out lies about ays?

[wagdoll]

From what I know the ponzi scheme is about taking money and owing more every time you take in. Say you take in $20 from one person you end up owing $40 because you say you will pay 2 others for that one person joining. Eventually the list gets longer and longer and gets out of control. I did look it up on the net a couple of years ago during the time when 1heluva was in operation. I've seen it happen in bubble games, and I've seen examples of pyramid schemes which seem to be very closely related to the ponzi concept.

A ponzi ptr does something similar. They take in say $1 but pay out (on paper/or on screen) $10. So say a program has taken in $100,000 they might well owe $1,000,000 to their members. I see that as being very similar to the concept of the ponzi.

Ays seems to be one of the programs running in the ponzi ptr mould, owing out more with each mail than is taken in. I saw sharon say once on gpf that ays could only pay out when money came in, and that the money wasnt in the coffers waiting to be paid out, that is a classic sign of what happens in a ponzi ptr. In the beginning there are few members requesting and they are able to pay out easily. But later more members are requesting cash that was never taken in in revenue.

If ays isnt running this way then I'm sure it wont take long to get down to paying within 30 days again. Maybe 2 or 3 months and it will be back like that?

If you would like to show me proof that ays isnt operating as a ponzi ptr, I would be more than happy to look over it :)

[AnI4AnI]

I wish I knew what they could do to get their money. It seems they cant go to court for it or use legal means, if they say anything about using legal means does that constitute threatening behaviour? If they make multiple posts in relevant forums on the subject in an effort to get the money or to educate and inform others, is that harassing?
Is there anyone who can tell me exactly what lies ani has been saying about ays? Not subjective things, not about her personal life, but straight out lies about ays?

Yeah, hey, if money was no object I'd be MORE than happy to see all this unfold in a court of law. Oh, how happy I'd be to see some folks try to wrangle out of the tangled webs they wove.

Wags, they don't seem to be addressing any of the real issues, only bringing up irrelevant things, probably posts taken out of context, who knows. No actual logical arguments to support their actions, from what I can decipher. Same old same old.

[AnI4AnI]

As for how I would feel if someone gave me something (money) when I was in need and then asked for it back and I didnt have it to give them, I dont know how I would feel. I dont think I would appreciate a lot of others making personal attacks based on that either.



It's important to remember that it was UNSOLICITED on my part, too. Apparently some people aren't getting that. Therefore, if I didn't ask for it, if it was voluntary CONTRIBUTIONS then there is no discussion about it. No idea why people keep bringing it up. It's a dead issue. Drop it.

[bellestraker]

I thought about that too. I think there is a big difference in asking such things of an individual and asking them of a business that could well owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in outstanding debt to their creditors.

As for how I would feel if someone gave me something (money) when I was in need and then asked for it back and I didnt have it to give them, I dont know how I would feel. I dont think I would appreciate a lot of others making personal attacks based on that either.

It matters to me when anyone receives their earnings later than tos or 30 days whichever is the lowest - it matters more to me when you know they do have problems, regardless of who they are.

I wish I knew what they could do to get their money. It seems they cant go to court for it or use legal means, if they say anything about using legal means does that constitute threatening behaviour? If they make multiple posts in relevant forums on the subject in an effort to get the money or to educate and inform others, is that harassing?

Is there anyone who can tell me exactly what lies ani has been saying about ays? Not subjective things, not about her personal life, but straight out lies about ays?

.................................................. ...................................



I was not going to respond again in this thread simply because I am again...getting too involved but feel you at least deserve some answer.

I really do not recall other posts from you so could be wrong but from here it seems you really do only care about sites being beyond tos in payment and members getting paid or po's scamming etc.

I think those things should be the issues as they are what IS IMPORTANT amongst all the ???? ( from us all) and although I am as guilty as any with firing back insults... I have repeated ??? times that any posts saying ays is behind in payments and they are mad or that people do not agree with the delete for forum abuse or any one of a zillion other complaints...Are just that..Legitimate complaints and should be heard.

It seems though that this seldom happens ( even on the rare occasion where the original poster actually is just giving an honest complaint). If you check almost every ays thread you will see someone say for example " I have not been paid for 6 months and that is ridiculous. I think ays sucks"
How can anyone argue..The facts are true and the opinion is theirs.

But instead of any discussion about that in will pop wily or ??? to start with "Well what do you expect...and off will come a string of things that mostly have no basis in fact and the ones which bear any semblance to the truth are stretched to the extreme so that any legitimacy is deeply buried under all the rants and raving.

My main beef has been "If what they are doing is wrong...Let it be wrong based on what they DO OR DID.
NOT on this ridiculous ranting of lies, inuendos etc.

You say that it is ok to ask Linder how he paid for his vacation but not ok to ask wily how she is going to pay for lawyers etc.( because Linder owes money and is a company)
Personally I dont think either question is anybodys business but if wily chooses to set herself up as some " larger than life crusader of all that is righteous and true...The be all and end all with the last word on what to do to : save ourselves:...To guide the Newbies toward the correct means of dealing with gptr.then it would seem prudent to ask many other questions.

Otherwise it seems to me to be saying...It is OK to bamboozle anyone with any story you feel like laying out at the moment. Pretend to be whatever you want...
I guess there is no law against that but is that really what you expect ( Or want) from members you meet- and many whom you become friends with.

If this is a dating club I guess I could understand the need to lie about almost every aspect of your personality if you are afraid that no-one would want to listen to the REAL YOU.
The only reason I can think of to make up a completely phoney id is if you have something to hide. And to make up many ?? And one just happens to be a poor woman wanting funds to go see her sick grandma..( and accepts all donations for same)
Yes I think it is important to know that about the person I am speaking to.
and particularily when that person is giving ( Demanding we listen to and heed) her advice.

Her reasons for all this sure dont ring true to me.

She cant have it both ways.

I've said before...
Dont those pickets hurt?

Belle

[Mallerie]

Wow, I've never seen so many suck-ups in my life. Don't you guys have love letters to Scott Peterson to write?

I guess the AYS-Gate cult members are preparing for that glorious rapture, that holy day when they'll all miraculously get paid because they were loyal and obediant servants to their slave-mastah. I guess they also know who they are... ;)

Why are people who have a different opinion than yours suck-ups? Isn't anybody allowed to disagree with you without being called names. :cool:

no dawn thats the rule ont he boards she posts on. its an unwritten rule but you WILL be called names if you dont follow her lead. just as right here. you better feel and think and do as she says or the two posts at the top are what you will get. shes not attacking one member she attacks many at one time.

I take offense to your description of me "ranting and raving".

ringringring - hello ani? this is pot your black. :eyeroll:

by a weird twist of consequence hundreds of forum members have taken offence to YOUR mean and hateful attacking remarks yet you continue to do it. you dont care one BIT how you talk to anyone else why should anyone care if they offend you.

oh wait is it ok to post offensive and degrading comments only if its YOU posting them? is that how it works?

your the number one perfect example of 'you get back what you put out there'.

Moni you really should read the 8 months of posts by starfire/wily1north as the names she posted over at gpf. many times with no provocation the attacks would fly from her. dont think for one moment this person hasnt tried to make ptr roadkill out of MANy members.

the posts by her 'friends' in this thread says a lot too. even they cant stand what shes doing. when people who claim to know the ins and outs of your life and are close to you start saying 'knock it off' maybe that person should listen a little bit.

i don't care what program it is or who far behind they are in payemtns ill always respect someone that cares enough to try and help someone in trouble.


Mal

[Mallerie]

As for how I would feel if someone gave me something (money) when I was in need and then asked for it back and I didnt have it to give them, I dont know how I would feel. I dont think I would appreciate a lot of others making personal attacks based on that either.

how would you feel if you were the donator or giver and then the person you gave to dropped off the face of the earth only to unknowingly return to bash the crap out of you under other usernames? break the rules of a forum to do it?

From what I know the ponzi scheme is about taking money and owing more every time you take in. Say you take in $20 from one person you end up owing $40 because you say you will pay 2 others for that one person joining. Eventually the list gets longer and longer and gets out of control. I did look it up on the net a couple of years ago during the time when 1heluva was in operation. I've seen it happen in bubble games, and I've seen examples of pyramid schemes which seem to be very closely related to the ponzi concept.


1 heluva you HAD to contribue your own money to belong is that right?

everytime i see something about ponzi scheems the distinctive thing is you AHVE to put your own money in. you don't just join up and thats it. you have to pay fees or somehow contribue into the system.

like tasias paid links you HAVE to uprgrade to be paid. i think you can still use your own earnings to do it (i don't belong anymore) but you must in some way GIVE to get anything out. otherwise you dont ever get any pay at all.

THAt to me seems like a ponzi.

Mal

[AnI4AnI]

Uh Belle, we've already been over all this. Have you anything new to offer? Any constructive suggestions about how members can fight back against POs who refuse to pay then delete them for expressing resentment? When you guys attack me do you really think I'm going to slink off? My assessment of the whole sorry mess is accurate and has been validated more often than not by many other people.

I'm adding you to my Ignore list simply because you are here to incite, not to discuss the issues.

[wagdoll]

Not everyone paid to join 1heluva and there are also ponzi's where people get in for free but as far as I know they are illegal nonetheless.

Anyway, ponzi ptr's dont get their description from needing people to pay, but from their mathematical progression deeper and deeper into debt and further behind with payments (unless the po runs or actually changes to a sustainable model - which then necessitates charging a fair amount over base cost to catch up once they are very deep in debt and far behind, and that tends to mean not many advertisers as the sustainable programs are then cheaper to buy at and have a better reputation).

[moniopt]

It seems to me as an outsider that Linder seems more concerned with threatening members who are unhappy with waiting in excess of 6 months for their payouts than with actually paying people in a more reasonable time frame.

EXACTLY the way I see it too.

[teedy]

edited for miss reading :hehe:

too many Sunday Afternoon , wild turkeys here,

aagh its all bad, no limerick votes either ,

[bellestraker]

Wily..
Now I know that your response to anyone else posting as you did about putting me on ignore would be.
" Guess I must have hit a nerve eh blah.blah"

Now I am not petty enough to say that but just thought I would point out that it would most certainly be what you would have said. ( sarcasm intended)


Just as when you bashed and insulted until people left the forum you would say things like..." I guess all Linders little ?? all ran away"

It always reminded me of the school yard gangs that all jump on one kid and beat the bark off him...then walk away slapping their hands together, high fiving and patting backs while bragging " we sure kicked his butt didnt we?"




Then we get to your little ( very little) wittiscisms about being off topic.

I thought this thread was about you being deleted from ays for forum abuse.??
So once again we are allowed to bring in any thing we can possibly think of ( or make up) about ays but if its about you...( The deleted person) then we are off topic.

If you really want to get strict about on topic...I would think that You and Your shenanigans in forums would be a lot more pertinent than the news flash that ays is behind on payments.

Belle

[bellestraker]

Quote wagdoll

Not everyone paid to join 1heluva and there are also ponzi's where people get in for free but as far as I know they are illegal nonetheless.

Anyway, ponzi ptr's dont get their description from needing people to pay, but from their mathematical progression deeper and deeper into debt and further behind with payments (unless the po runs or actually changes to a sustainable model - which then necessitates charging a fair amount over base cost to catch up once they are very deep in debt and far behind, and that tends to mean not many advertisers as the sustainable programs are then cheaper to buy at and have a better reputation).

.................................................. ..........................................

If ponzis were just about company's getting deeper in debt then every second company would be classed as a ponzi.

I dont think you can take one or two things out of the entire ponzi definition and decide that company is a ponzi.

Here is what I found under Ponzi in google..The very last paragraph gives a requirement for a ponzi scheme.



Bubble and Ponzi Schemes used in Investment Fraud Scams


Its Namesake

Named after Carl Ponzi, who collected $9.8 million from 10,550 people ( including ¾ of the Boston Police Force ) and then paid out $7.8 million in just 8 months in 1920 Boston by offering profits of 50% every 45 days.

A swindle of this nature, referred to as a "bubble" for the hundreds of years it has existed and now referred to as a "Ponzi scheme" is basically an investment fraud where investors are enticed with the promise of extremely high returns or dividends over a very short period of time.

This shorter period between payouts and high rate of return is required to create the impetus for the frenzy that is to follow as word leaks out, and is soon verified, by numerous sources. The truly experienced con will balance these two factors ( payout period and promised rate of return ) against the expected duration of the operation so as to maximize his take while still maintaining some semblance of credibility.

In the true sense of borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, ponzi schemes are a simple fraud whereby initial investors are paid exceptional dividends as interest cheques from the deposits of a growing number of new investors.

"Profits" to investors are not created by the success of the underlying business venture but instead are derived fraudulently from the capital contributions of other investors.

A few people invest in the scheme, then as news of the offer spreads, more investors are drawn in. Usually there is no actual investment involved, contrary to your understanding, just money being shipped in from new investors to the earlier ones.

Ponzi schemes eventually collapse because the underlying asset upon which the investment was based either never existed, or was grossly overvalued. And unlike pyramid schemes, where one's potential gain is measured by the active and conscious practice of participant recruitment, ponzi schemes attribute their moneymaking abilities on some elaborate and inventive investment or business process, with the influx of new depositors the result of word-of-mouth only.
A requirement of a Ponzi scheme is the promotion of what starts out to be, or appears to be, a real investment opportunity which investors may passively contribute to

[AnI4AnI]

You went "off the clock" when you started with your non-stop harassment of myself, the AYS staff, the members and AYS as a whole. You're constant starting threads at GPF and hijacking other threads with your bashing, insulting, lying comments is harassment. At least the attorney I have talked to seems to think so. Also many other non legal types, including business owners.



Uh, does anyone else find this rather alarming? That at the end of January they owed me at least $50 when I cashed out. By April it was probably up to $100, that's 3 months so far where I should have been paid. Around July or so it would have been up to $150. Now, people are not supposed to comment about the late payments or they get deleted, and this doesn't alarm anyone? It should. Most members should be screaming about it because this affects each and every one of you who are waiting for payout. In other words, speak the wrong thing and risk the same fate.

Now, even if they had a legitimate complaint against me, they would STILL owe me at least $150 of which Linder has chosen to disregard, saying he's not going to pay me a dime.

As for changing my username from Starfire to Wily, hey...I was perfectly comfortable with Starfire UNTIL people started breaching privacy policies regarding my personal information. Shall we discuss that?

One last thing, I believe there are probably quite a few lawyers out there who, after studying the facts and fallacies regarding these issues would be more than happy to represent me for free rather than AYS for a fee....oh and Linder, you ask if I've even tried to pay anyone back...ummm...do your members know you're hiring lawyers to get you out of binds like this instead of paying them?

[Mallerie]

As for changing my username from Starfire to Wily, hey...I was perfectly comfortable with Starfire UNTIL people started breaching privacy policies regarding my personal information. Shall we discuss that?

...or until you messed up and one of the moderators caugth your mistake.

jypsy was a good one why not stick with that. guess thats pretty obvious why not though.

i think the rulebreaking at gpf making up all these usernames which got BANNED should be discussed.

how the hell can a dishonest rulebreaking person talk about morals and what people shoud ad shouldnt do?

looks like pot needs to give kettal a call again.

Mal

[Tmarie99]

Violation of privacy policies? PLEASE!

Mentioning lawyers? LOL OMG OMG OMG That is just too funny for words.

All I can say is instead of TALKING about a lawyer, get one. If you seriously believe that you had cause for an attorney, why not just get one?
Those who can do, those who can't..... Talk.

[lil crusader]

Mal: I don't think you're a member of GPF are you? If not, you probably don't know this.....when a person chooses to leave GPF and asks to have their account deleted....after a 6-month waiting period to give them a chance to change their mind and return, their account is removed permanently and the only way to do this is to designate the ID as "banned"...this is why the jypsy ID shows as being banned. She left the forum on her own and after the time period had elapsed, her ID automatically became banned.

Obviously she decided at some point to come back, and in so doing, she HAD to use a different ID because her old one was no longer available. Thus - StarFire.

Now I don't know what happened to make her stop using StarFire and turn into Wily.....I didn't even realize for a long time that they were the same person. But again, upon changing IDs, her oldest one (StarFire in this case) would go into the banned category.

The Wily ID was obviously banned for other reasons -- what those are, I have no clue and they're none of my business.

I hope this explains, though, the prior "bans" which weren't really bans in the traditional sense at all. Mero had the same thing happen not long ago when she realized she had joined GPF a long time ago under a different ID. In order to keep using her Meroveus ID, she initial ID had to go on "banned" status too.....She had never actually been banned for breaking a rule -- it was just a technicality over the ID and nothing more.

[DGE1754]

Jypsy/Starfire/Wily1North and whatever other usernames you might have used

GEEZ at least I use the same username and always have

This is NOT a dead issue with me. I PMed you at the GPF when people were trying to help you go to see your "sick and dying" grandmother. I told you I would loan you $200. YES it was a loan and you agreed to it. It was $$ I could spare and I pretty much wrote it off when I sent it to you. BUT my point is you make every effort to hide you identity in the GPF when you KNEW I was a member there...funny were you trying to hide from me and others you owed $$ to?
My point is simply your hypocrisy! You make sure to "expose" and complain every chance you get about webmaster you believe are lying and refusing to pay when you did the VERY same thing! Those that live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones! You claim to be "sticking up for the little guy" the members that continually get ripped off. Yet you ripped off a "little guy" yourself..lol

I made an appeal to you in the GPF when I saw you were lurking there but you were on the pending deletion list and could not reply:

http://www.getpaidforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=144469&hl=

You then wrote me directly back and I saved the email ;) I will cut and paste it here including the headers...with some info taken out for privacy

Return-path: <JypsyXXXXX@aol.com>
Envelope-to: webmaster@getaportal.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:23:44 -0500
Received: from [64.12.137.8] (helo=imo-m27.mx.aol.com)
by dedicated12.lucidityhosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24)
id 1Awv4q-0006GT-P4
for webmaster@getaportal.com; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:23:44 -0500
Received: from JypsyXXXXX@aol.com
by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.14.) id i.7e.480dc979 (16930)
for <webmaster@getaportal.com>; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:23:47 -0500 (EST)
From: JypsyXXXXX@aol.com
Message-ID: <7e.480dc979.2d7163c3@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:23:47 EST
Subject: (no subject)
To: webmaster@getaportal.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_7e.480dc979.2d7163c3_boundary"
X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6021

Hi, I saw your appeal in the forum and wanted to let you know I have your information and haven't forgotten you. I'm sorry I couldn't reply in the forum but I asked to be deleted from there due to a problem.

At any rate, my situation is that I am having great financial difficulties and cannot even pay my rent. I expect to be served with an eviction notice soon and since I really have no place to go, will most assuredly be homeless. I have been trying to hang on but with such stress and pressure, I am just not doing very well at all.

I will be in touch.

Thanks and hugs,
(Jypsy)


You will be in touch?? HA! I havent heard one word from you since this email. That was 2/2004. You have been claiming to be evicted for months! Thats one of the reasons you claimed you didnt have enough $$ to visit your "dying grandmother". You were going to be evicted. Yes you still claimed that in the email you sent me 4 months later (not the date of the forum post and the date if the headers of the email you sent)! It doesnt take 4 months for a landlord to evict someone in the USA trust me I have been evicted :)

You seem to love to "expose" "scam" webmasters...ones that make excuses and do not pay their members within terms etc. What is the difference of what you are doing and what they are? It was an agreement you said you would send the $$ back and you said you would even IF you could only send a little a month. IF you had been a person of your word you surely could have sent at least 10 cents a month since you spend so much time online. Did you do that? Heck no! I havent heard anything from you since the above email in Feb/2004. I have NO clue how many other people loaned you $$ but I havent forgotten and its NOT a dead issue with me you understand that??

I couldnt find the original post where people were asking for help for you and the one I read but I did find this one:

http://www.getpaidforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97969&hl=

Bottom line....once again this is NOT a dead issue with me you understand that? I will hold you to your word...even though you word obviously means nothing!
I want people to understand just who and what you stand for when you start these threads bashing webmasters that dont not pay or make excuses. What you are doing is just the same...making excuses hiding your identity and whatever else it takes not to pay people you owe!

Who knows how many other people loaned you $$...no telling how many other people you owe. Your hypocrisy is appalling and quite frankly nauseating!

Make all the excuses you want. I know the truth...I have nothing to hide. I dont change my usernames to hide who I am. I have done nothing wrong. I cant say the same for you.

I hardly expect you to pay me back...thats pretty obvious by now....but I will continue to remind you ever chance I get that you are NOT a person of your word.... and that is WAS a loan you agreed to....your credibilty is down the toilet and you have NO right bashing webmasters that dont pay when you yourself are NO better

I have given you every opportunity to make things right with me. You could send me 10 cents a month or whatever....but you havent done 1 single thing to make this right with me. For the last time this is NOT a dead issue you got that now?



It's important to remember that it was UNSOLICITED on my part, too. Apparently some people aren't getting that. Therefore, if I didn't ask for it, if it was voluntary CONTRIBUTIONS then there is no discussion about it. No idea why people keep bringing it up. It's a dead issue. Drop it.

[impergraf]

Exactly where did you read a hired lawyers? Huh? Unlike you, I have friends that are willing to help and give me advice, and some that are willing to go to bat for me. Some of those people are in the legal profession. Some are lawyers, some are cops. So far I have payed nothing to a lawyer or lawyers.

While I am here, I will answer a few of your other questions. Again, unlike you, I can answer a straight question.


Just curious Linder, what did your lawyers say about inciting your members to SPAM me?

I said "an attorney", not lawyers. And I did not incite anyone to spam you. You insisted in thread after thread at GPF that we put in turing numbers to help deter cheaters. After having done that before, and receiving many emails and PM's with members' disapproval, we decided to remove them. But again, due to your non stop harassment to get us to put turing numbers back, I felt that since it was your idea, you can take some of the heat. I mean, you did insist and all. For the record, an attorney has told me that no court in this country will find that I incited people to spam you. At least no court they have ever been in.

Also, I was wondering how you could afford to go on vacation when you're SO far behind in payouts?

It's called a real job. I am sure you have heard of them. It is where you go to work everyday and get paid for it, and once a year they pay you to take a week off to relax and enjoy yourself. Maybe you should consider one of these.

Do your lawyers know how far behind you are? Do they know you keep changing your silly Terms of Service to suit your mood? First it was what, 30, 60, 90 days, then a reasonable time thereafter, then it was when we get money from our payment processors, then it was whenever we feel like it.

Do my "lawyers" really care? No. We were discussing harassment. In two years time we have changed our terms 3 times regarding payouts. Too much? I don't think so. After constantly being ripped off by both advertisers and members, we have to adapt. I am sure you can understand ripping people off, can't you?

Do they condone the fact that you've taken in thousands of dollars this year alone and you're still paying people from last December, 2003?

I have no idea if they do or not. Did you know that those thousands of dollars taken in so far this year HAVE been paid to members? No, probably not.

Do your lawyers have an aversion to the truth or something?

I doubt it. But you sure seem to.

What will they do to me? Send me to Sing-Sing for writing in a forum?

Again, I have no idea what your life has in store for you. But you sure are going about leading your life the wrong way.

You don't impress or intimidate me, little man.

And there is that name calling again.

[Mallerie]

Mal: I don't think you're a member of GPF are you? If not, you probably don't know this.....when a person chooses to leave GPF and asks to have their account deleted....after a 6-month waiting period to give them a chance to change their mind and return, their account is removed permanently and the only way to do this is to designate the ID as "banned"...this is why the jypsy ID shows as being banned. She left the forum on her own and after the time period had elapsed, her ID automatically became banned.

Obviously she decided at some point to come back, and in so doing, she HAD to use a different ID because her old one was no longer available. Thus - StarFire.

Now I don't know what happened to make her stop using StarFire and turn into Wily.....I didn't even realize for a long time that they were the same person. But again, upon changing IDs, her oldest one (StarFire in this case) would go into the banned category.

The Wily ID was obviously banned for other reasons -- what those are, I have no clue and they're none of my business.

I hope this explains, though, the prior "bans" which weren't really bans in the traditional sense at all. Mero had the same thing happen not long ago when she realized she had joined GPF a long time ago under a different ID. In order to keep using her Meroveus ID, she initial ID had to go on "banned" status too.....She had never actually been banned for breaking a rule -- it was just a technicality over the ID and nothing more.

i signed but havent posted. not sure if i want to.

jypsy stopped posting on jan 5.

starfre signed on april 4. thats not 6 months.

starfire last post on jun 18.

wily signed on jun 18. thats not 6 months.

apparently rules dont apply to her. ;)

as far as the why it might have something to do with that mod xena finding wily saying she posted in a thread when it fact it was starfire. she blew her own cover.

Mal

[sophieca]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lil crusader
Mal: I don't think you're a member of GPF are you? If not, you probably don't know this.....when a person chooses to leave GPF and asks to have their account deleted....after a 6-month waiting period to give them a chance to change their mind and return, their account is removed permanently and the only way to do this is to designate the ID as "banned"...this is why the jypsy ID shows as being banned. She left the forum on her own and after the time period had elapsed, her ID automatically became banned.

Obviously she decided at some point to come back, and in so doing, she HAD to use a different ID because her old one was no longer available. Thus - StarFire.

Now I don't know what happened to make her stop using StarFire and turn into Wily.....I didn't even realize for a long time that they were the same person. But again, upon changing IDs, her oldest one (StarFire in this case) would go into the banned category.

The Wily ID was obviously banned for other reasons -- what those are, I have no clue and they're none of my business.

I hope this explains, though, the prior "bans" which weren't really bans in the traditional sense at all. Mero had the same thing happen not long ago when she realized she had joined GPF a long time ago under a different ID. In order to keep using her Meroveus ID, she initial ID had to go on "banned" status too.....She had never actually been banned for breaking a rule -- it was just a technicality over the ID and nothing more.





i signed but havent posted. not sure if i want to.

jypsy stopped posting on jan 5.

starfre signed on april 4. thats not 6 months.

starfire last post on jun 18.

wily signed on jun 18. thats not 6 months.

apparently rules dont apply to her. ;)

as far as the why it might have something to do with that mod xena finding wily saying she posted in a thread when it fact it was starfire. she blew her own cover.

Mal

Hi,

Sorry but just adding a little technical correction ;)

At GPF if you request so, your ID is put on pending deletion for six months, you then are still listed as a member but on pedning deletion, meaning you don't participate anymore because you choose to do so. After 6 months, your account is removed from the database, NOT banned .. and you can freely rejoin.

You can come back before the end of the 6 months by contacting administrators and pay a small fee ... however if you make a new account and start posting without contacting admin when your first account is still pending deletion, you make a second account which is against GPF rules and you might have both account warned and/or banned for it.

Thanks for reading

sophieca
admin GPF

[kglaser]

i signed but havent posted. not sure if i want to.

jypsy stopped posting on jan 5.

starfre signed on april 4. thats not 6 months.

starfire last post on jun 18.

wily signed on jun 18. thats not 6 months.

apparently rules dont apply to her. ;)

as far as the why it might have something to do with that mod xena finding wily saying she posted in a thread when it fact it was starfire. she blew her own cover.

Mal

Now why would someone drop the username they had and create another one the same day (StarFire wasn't yet banned when Wily1North was created)? Perhaps because her arguments weren't going the way she wanted them? Certainly I may be wrong, but what other rationale is there?
And it was cracking me up how "Wily" started out typing in all lower-case letters, lapsing rather quickly back into her old posting style when she felt the coast was clear.
Not all of us are so easily fooled. ;)

[Mallerie]

Now why would someone drop the username they had and create another one the same day (StarFire wasn't yet banned when Wily1North was created)? Perhaps because her arguments weren't going the way she wanted them? Certainly I may be wrong, but what other rationale is there?
And it was cracking me up how "Wily" started out typing in all lower-case letters, lapsing rather quickly back into her old posting style when she felt the coast was clear.
Not all of us are so easily fooled. ;)


sinc wily started the same day starfre was banned it sounds to me like she signed up one username after she foud out star was banned.

why should people listen to someone like this? its amazing whats all comeing out by people she screwed over.

Mal

[wagdoll]

Thanks, that is a good explanation of why I call them ponzi ptr's - the models are very similar.

Please note I have never called them ponzis, where as you say about the investment of the person in the ponzi is a primary facet.

Ponzi ptr is, for me a very apt description, just change a few words there, from money coming from investor to money coming from advertiser and going to member, but more is promised to go out than is ever taken in and ends up as the Peter borrowing from Paul phenomenon described there, as is the case with the ponzi ptr where todays ad revenue pays 10 month old member earnings.

It says about the underlying asset being grossly overvalued. Well the advertising in the ponzi ptr is grossly overvalued by the member being paid 5c or 10c when the advertiser only paid 1/2c for what was promised to be passed on to the member.

The ponzi ptr has split the investors of the ponzi into two categories, the advertiser putting in the money and the member taking out. The principle, however, is the same.

New members are drawn into ponzi ptr's by the initial payouts being swift and large. Later the payouts cannot be that swift because there is no money there, their payment has to wait for later advertisers (investors).

As for what you say about companies getting into debt, I honestly believe that if a business' prime product created was 'debt' they would be taken down by the law. How many companies in the 'real world' do you know that are 10 months late paying their employees? I dont know any. When I have heard of companies being unable to pay their employees, even one month late I have seen them go into liquidation/bankruptcy - not continue to operate building more and more debt on purpose.

Quote wagdoll

Not everyone paid to join 1heluva and there are also ponzi's where people get in for free but as far as I know they are illegal nonetheless.

Anyway, ponzi ptr's dont get their description from needing people to pay, but from their mathematical progression deeper and deeper into debt and further behind with payments (unless the po runs or actually changes to a sustainable model - which then necessitates charging a fair amount over base cost to catch up once they are very deep in debt and far behind, and that tends to mean not many advertisers as the sustainable programs are then cheaper to buy at and have a better reputation).

.................................................. ..........................................

If ponzis were just about company's getting deeper in debt then every second company would be classed as a ponzi.

I dont think you can take one or two things out of the entire ponzi definition and decide that company is a ponzi.

Here is what I found under Ponzi in google..The very last paragraph gives a requirement for a ponzi scheme.



Bubble and Ponzi Schemes used in Investment Fraud Scams


Its Namesake

Named after Carl Ponzi, who collected $9.8 million from 10,550 people ( including ¾ of the Boston Police Force ) and then paid out $7.8 million in just 8 months in 1920 Boston by offering profits of 50% every 45 days.

A swindle of this nature, referred to as a "bubble" for the hundreds of years it has existed and now referred to as a "Ponzi scheme" is basically an investment fraud where investors are enticed with the promise of extremely high returns or dividends over a very short period of time.

This shorter period between payouts and high rate of return is required to create the impetus for the frenzy that is to follow as word leaks out, and is soon verified, by numerous sources. The truly experienced con will balance these two factors ( payout period and promised rate of return ) against the expected duration of the operation so as to maximize his take while still maintaining some semblance of credibility.

In the true sense of borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, ponzi schemes are a simple fraud whereby initial investors are paid exceptional dividends as interest cheques from the deposits of a growing number of new investors.

"Profits" to investors are not created by the success of the underlying business venture but instead are derived fraudulently from the capital contributions of other investors.

A few people invest in the scheme, then as news of the offer spreads, more investors are drawn in. Usually there is no actual investment involved, contrary to your understanding, just money being shipped in from new investors to the earlier ones.

Ponzi schemes eventually collapse because the underlying asset upon which the investment was based either never existed, or was grossly overvalued. And unlike pyramid schemes, where one's potential gain is measured by the active and conscious practice of participant recruitment, ponzi schemes attribute their moneymaking abilities on some elaborate and inventive investment or business process, with the influx of new depositors the result of word-of-mouth only.
A requirement of a Ponzi scheme is the promotion of what starts out to be, or appears to be, a real investment opportunity which investors may passively contribute to

[DGE1754]

To DGE, when she called Jypsy out MONTHS later (and I was not privy to what Tam's had done by that time), I told DGE I would pay her personally. Just give me amount per month needed until I could fully pay her back, and I would do so. However, apparently she felt the need to continue pushing IN PUBLIC. No matter what Tams has done, I wouldn't have gone that way.



Let me get one thing straight here. Yes you offered to pay for Jypsy and I refused...But you failed to say why I refused?
I refused because I said NO I wont allow someone else to be taken by her. I wont allow someone else to pay her debt!
I told you at the time you were foolish to side with her and believe her did I not?
You said you trusted her and it wouldnt be the first time your kindness had backfired on you (not your exact words but close). I actually admired you for sticking up for a friend

Yes I understand you were taken in as well. I feel sorry for you. You thought her as your friend. But as a person I can not just let this go I will continue to make it public
She was given a LOAN...which means it should be paid back and by her not anyone else.
I cared enough about you to not get you involved and I am sorry but I had to mention in here why I did not except your offer
I think you have a kind heart....this is nothing personal against. I like ya :)

[AnI4AnI]

Hey DGE Get my PRIVATE INFORMATION OFF THIS OR I WILL SUE YOU. I DID NOT ENTER INTO A LOAN AGREEMENT WITH YOU. I SAID I WOULD BE IN TOUCH, PERIOD. That's IT!! If ANYONE is harassing ANYONE it's YOU GUYS about the donations YOU CHOSE to send without my asking!!

Mods I am requesting you DELETE my private information as she/he/whatever is in direct violation of my privacy rights.

[AnI4AnI]

GET OFF MY BACK!

YOU guys turned this whole thing into something REVOLTING and UGLY and if I had of known you'd be acting like this I would have told you where to put your money. As it turns out, I am NOT responsible for YOU sending me money when I never even asked for it.

Mods, please close this thread. I'm finished with this unbelievable nightmare.

[DGE1754]

Hey DGE Get my PRIVATE INFORMATION OFF THIS OR I WILL SUE YOU. I DID NOT ENTER INTO A LOAN AGREEMENT WITH YOU. I SAID I WOULD BE IN TOUCH, PERIOD. That's IT!! If ANYONE is harassing ANYONE it's YOU GUYS about the donations YOU CHOSE to send without my asking!!

Mods I am requesting you DELETE my private information as she/he/whatever is in direct violation of my privacy rights.

What private info?? Bring it on jypsy go ahead and sue me you know where to find me..LOL

[DGE1754]

GET OFF MY BACK!

YOU guys turned this whole thing into something REVOLTING and UGLY and if I had of known you'd be acting like this I would have told you where to put your money. As it turns out, I am NOT responsible for YOU sending me money when I never even asked for it.

Mods, please close this thread. I'm finished with this unbelievable nightmare.

Ahh taking your toys and running away now? What username can we expect next time for you? What forum can we expect you to surface in and what username??LOL

You are nothing but a fraud

[Dawn Michelle]

GET OFF MY BACK!

YOU guys turned this whole thing into something REVOLTING and UGLY and if I had of known you'd be acting like this I would have told you where to put your money. As it turns out, I am NOT responsible for YOU sending me money when I never even asked for it.

Mods, please close this thread. I'm finished with this unbelievable nightmare.

The more of your posts I read the worse you sound. Don't you feel any gratitude for the help you received at all? Whether the help was asked for or not you'd think you would be thankful for the help instead of having an attitude.. I don't think you have any room to be throwing stones at anybody. I hope you don't ever need help again because you've really burned your bridges on here. I doubt anyone would ever help you again or believe anything you have to say again. I know I wont.

[tashgate]

Ahh taking your toys and running away now? What username can we expect next time for you? What forum can we expect you to surface in and what username??LOL

You are nothing but a fraud

What forum and what name? Only the Shadow knows. LOL

I'm REALLY sorry for anyone who lost money to this fraud. It's usually the ones who make a point of flaunting their so-called integrity that actually have none. As far as I can see she's made more money off PTR than any of the rest of us ever will. Anyone have any idea of what her grand total actually was?

As far as the other posters turning this into something ugly and revolting... it's BEEN ugly and revolting for quite a while now, them posting about it doesn't make it something it wasn't already.

Just for the record, her ID is still active on the AYS forum, so her protests that she can't post there are not true.

[Mallerie]

I'm REALLY sorry for anyone who lost money to this fraud. It's usually the ones who make a point of flaunting their so-called integrity that actually have none. As far as I can see she's made more money off PTR than any of the rest of us ever will. Anyone have any idea of what her grand total actually was?

As far as the other posters turning this into something ugly and revolting... it's BEEN ugly and revolting for quite a while now, them posting about it doesn't make it something it wasn't already.

Just for the record, her ID is still active on the AYS forum, so her protests that she can't post there are not true.

i think the point of this hwole thread was to expose a scammy program who doesnt pay and get people to do something. turns out its not the PROGRAM that was the scam and people sure are doing someting about it.

id be wanting this closed to after people found out what i did. geez.

Mal

[tashgate]

i think the point of this hwole thread was to expose a scammy program who doesnt pay and get people to do something. turns out its not the PROGRAM that was the scam and people sure are doing someting about it.

id be wanting this closed to after people found out what i did. geez.

Mal

Well, I hope the people who got scammed out of their money DO do something about it. Hey! I think I saw some links to COLLECTION AGENCIES listed earlier in this thread. Hmmmm, now who posted those? LOL

[lil crusader]

<just taking a quick work break and though I swore I wasn't coming back to this thread, there are a couple of things I've just got to say:

1. Hey Tash!!!! :)

2. Thanks for the clarification on ID changing/deleting Sophie.....sorry I had it kind of messed up.

3. To all: Never never never lend money to a friend - at least not more than you can afford to lose.....I'm learning that the hard way myself right now as somebody that I'd thought was one of my best friends in the world apparently has no intention of ever repaying all of the money I lent him about 3-1/2 years ago......It took 2-1/2 years just to get half of it back and the past year has been filled with lots of promises to send the rest "next month for sure" but "next month" just never seems to arrive. (I'm not letting him off the hook, even though he's recently gotten married and his new wife has apparently told him she didn't want him being best friends with another woman.....he's not going to be rid of me until I get the rest of that money back - then I don't care what he does with the rest of his life......eww, I sound kind of po'd don't I, lol....well, I am!)

and now it's back to work time.

[kglaser]

Well Pam, ya should be! :p
I lent $10 to somebody like half a year ago, and he said he'd pay me back in 30 days...I did get $5 of it recently, but then he went on an overseas studies trip for 3-4 months, and when he gets back I'm going to say, "How was your trip?" and then "Where's my $5?" :laugh:

[AnI4AnI]

You people are nasty, low and insulting. Most of you harping on me about this aren't even acknowledging the fact that people voluntarily contributed to someone else in a time of need and should NOT have assumed said person was EVER going to be in a position to pay them back. You DON'T send money to someone who hasn't even asked then act like it was some sort of loan agreement. You TAKE responsibilty for yourself. Yes, I was grateful at the time but now it's gotten so unpleasant and disgusting that I truly wish it never happened and IF I am ever able to even give a penny back to anyone it would be to people like KimH and Bulldog and Brian and a few others, NOT the ones acting like spoiled, little children! Now, GET OFF ME ABOUT IT! God!

Talk about hijacking threads, this is about AYS, NOT ME!

Oh and DGE, you've made a nice living off advertisers of search engines who were unaware you were sending them dead clicks, right? SE PPC Fraud, I believe is what it's called, and I think you know ALL about it. So be careful telling others about hypocrasy.

[tashgate]

Hey, backatcha, Pam! It's always nice to see you, even if ya DID swear you weren't coming back!

And AMEN to your #3. No matter how good the friendship is, money can always screw it up. I lived with a friend for 13 years and one of the things we agreed on up front was "Never ever ever are we co-mingling funds or loaning each other money for more than ten minutes". We'd both made that mistake far too many times with far too many other people.

Now, stop reading, you have work to do. LOL

<just taking a quick work break and though I swore I wasn't coming back to this thread, there are a couple of things I've just got to say:

1. Hey Tash!!!! :)

2. Thanks for the clarification on ID changing/deleting Sophie.....sorry I had it kind of messed up.

3. To all: Never never never lend money to a friend - at least not more than you can afford to lose.....I'm learning that the hard way myself right now as somebody that I'd thought was one of my best friends in the world apparently has no intention of ever repaying all of the money I lent him about 3-1/2 years ago......It took 2-1/2 years just to get half of it back and the past year has been filled with lots of promises to send the rest "next month for sure" but "next month" just never seems to arrive. (I'm not letting him off the hook, even though he's recently gotten married and his new wife has apparently told him she didn't want him being best friends with another woman.....he's not going to be rid of me until I get the rest of that money back - then I don't care what he does with the rest of his life......eww, I sound kind of po'd don't I, lol....well, I am!)

and now it's back to work time.

[Dawn Michelle]

You people are nasty, low and insulting. Most of you harping on me about this aren't even acknowledging the fact that people voluntarily contributed to someone else in a time of need and should NOT have assumed said person was EVER going to be in a position to pay them back. You DON'T send money to someone who hasn't even asked then act like it was some sort of loan agreement. You TAKE responsibilty for yourself. Yes, I was grateful at the time but now it's gotten so unpleasant and disgusting that I truly wish it never happened and IF I am ever able to even give a penny back to anyone it would be to people like KimH and Bulldog and Brian and a few others, NOT the ones acting like spoiled, little children! Now, GET OFF ME ABOUT IT! God!

Talk about hijacking threads, this is about AYS, NOT ME!

Oh and DGE, you've made a nice living off advertisers of search engines who were unaware you were sending them dead clicks, right? SE PPC Fraud, I believe is what it's called, and I think you know ALL about it. So be careful telling others about hypocrasy.

Yeah we can all tell how "grateful" you are for the help you got. :cool:
And talk about getting nasty you've got the market cornered on that.
Whether it was asked for or not which I believe it was when you put the story out there, you would think you'd at least try to pay it back instead of flinging insults like you do at the people who helped you. Shows what kind of character you have. :cool:

[lil crusader]

My friend didn't ask me either.....In fact, it took a lot of convincing on my part to get him to swallow his pride and accept my offer to help him out at a bad time. But once he did, right after saying 'thank you' the very next thing he said was "it might take awhile, but I'll pay every penny of this back to you." He never once considered it to be a gift......now after 3-1/2 years, I think he's trying to forget it ever happened. My memory is long though, and I remember, even if he's trying to pretend he doesn't.

[tashgate]

Good advice, that "take responsibility for yourself" stuff. Ever tried it?

Those people gave/loaned you money because you SAID you were in need. The statement that you SAID you were in need is a fact. It's yet to be proven and many people now don't believe that you WERE in need for the reasons you stated. Anyone with an OUNCE of integrity would have put all luxuries on hold until they'd paid those people BACK, and YES, I do consider internet access to BE a luxury in cases like that. Whether or not you asked is irrelevant, you TOOK the money. Is that a LEGAL contract? Maybe not, but it's a MORAL contract. And I thoroughly believe DGE when she says that it was a LOAN and that you KNEW that.

As far as the nasty, low and insulting part - you've dished out plenty of that yourself. Why do you think that out of ALL the people on these forums who complain about ANYTHING, you're the one who is without a doubt one of the top three hassled? Is it by chance, or is there a reason? When ONE person tells you that it's not what you say but how you say it, that's not a big deal. When TWO people say it, maybe there's something there. When THREE people say, and FOUR and FIVE.... Get the picture? You're just plain offensive in the way you talk to people. That's what's at the heart of the whole thing, INCLUDING your current situation with AYS. You ticked off the wrong people. You ticked off people enough for them to take a hard look at YOU and it wasn't all THAT tough to figure out who you were.

That shot at DGE could be bordering on libel, couldn't it? Can you prove that allegation?

So, who are you going to sue first?


You people are nasty, low and insulting. Most of you harping on me about this aren't even acknowledging the fact that people voluntarily contributed to someone else in a time of need and should NOT have assumed said person was EVER going to be in a position to pay them back. You DON'T send money to someone who hasn't even asked then act like it was some sort of loan agreement. You TAKE responsibilty for yourself. Yes, I was grateful at the time but now it's gotten so unpleasant and disgusting that I truly wish it never happened and IF I am ever able to even give a penny back to anyone it would be to people like KimH and Bulldog and Brian and a few others, NOT the ones acting like spoiled, little children! Now, GET OFF ME ABOUT IT! God!

Talk about hijacking threads, this is about AYS, NOT ME!

Oh and DGE, you've made a nice living off advertisers of search engines who were unaware you were sending them dead clicks, right? SE PPC Fraud, I believe is what it's called, and I think you know ALL about it. So be careful telling others about hypocrasy.

[DGE1754]

You people are nasty, low and insulting. Most of you harping on me about this aren't even acknowledging the fact that people voluntarily contributed to someone else in a time of need and should NOT have assumed said person was EVER going to be in a position to pay them back. You DON'T send money to someone who hasn't even asked then act like it was some sort of loan agreement. You TAKE responsibilty for yourself. Yes, I was grateful at the time but now it's gotten so unpleasant and disgusting that I truly wish it never happened and IF I am ever able to even give a penny back to anyone it would be to people like KimH and Bulldog and Brian and a few others, NOT the ones acting like spoiled, little children! Now, GET OFF ME ABOUT IT! God!

Talk about hijacking threads, this is about AYS, NOT ME!

Oh and DGE, you've made a nice living off advertisers of search engines who were unaware you were sending them dead clicks, right? SE PPC Fraud, I believe is what it's called, and I think you know ALL about it. So be careful telling others about hypocrasy.


Jyspy/Starfire/Wily1North people like you really amaze me
You show your true colors all the time. People loaned or gave you $$ out of the goodness of their hearts. You knew it was a loan I talked to you via PM before it was sent. You could have refused it. You could have canceled the Paypal. But no...you excepted every penny.
Spoiled children? I doubt it. I have shown facts and you have shown nothing but contempt ungratefulness and downright rudeness.

You are such the victim...OH how could we all forget that. You have played the victim card long enough. You started this thread. You are the one that opened yourself up for whatever came your way.

My point was made. You were exposed for what you really are.
I actually feel sorry for you. You are one bitter person....quite sad really.

[bellestraker]

Quote Ani

Uh Belle, we've already been over all this. Have you anything new to offer?

.................................................. .................................

Yes we have been all over many things... Including that ays is late wihth payments. It really is nauseating when it gets drug around for months - and months.Isn't it??


Quote ani
Now, people are not supposed to comment about the late payments or they get deleted, and this doesn't alarm anyone? It should.


.............................................

This is a flat out lie and you know it. ( unfortunately others may not. NO-ONE has ever been deleted for saying that ays is behind in payments.)

There is a big difference in saying somehting and constantly bashing, lying, exagerating etc. etc.


Carry on.

Belle

You sure do get your tail in a knot when people discuss YOU...

Wow...It hardly even sounds like the same sweet unfortunate jypsy who was being evicted ( again) and was soooo desperate.
No wonder you have to keep changing id's. You may be good at spinning a tale but you arent much at keeping up the "nice person" facade are you?

btw..which evicition was that ??

[CTaylor]

Maybe it's just the way I was raised, but if I had gathered up enough sympathy from people that they were willing to help me out, I would be doing everything to show how grateful I was. ("a list of contributors" does NOT count as being grateful)

I would send every one of those people whatever I could, even if it was just $1.00 a month. At least it would show I cared, instead of blowing everyone off by using words like UNSOLICITED.

Again...the way I was raised.


edited for typo

[mikis]

Oh for cryin' out loud. Ani/Jypsy/Starfire/Wily/insert-name-of-the-week, you really are a piece of work. Yes, AYS IS behind on payments. BEHIND being the operative word here. People are getting paid. If you read this thread http://www.allyousubmitters.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=419&st=300 you'll see that people have been paid recently. And not even a quarter of AYS members are members of the forum, so the posts there do NOT reflect all the members who have been recently paid.

You, on the other hand, obviously haven't been paying people back. Whether or not the money was "unsolicited" (what a tacky choice of words on your part), you should be trying to repay these people. Unless the money was a gift, which I'm sure people would have expressed to you at the time they provided it to you, you should not ASSUME it's a gift. And bashing these people for wanting to be paid back because they tried to help you out in your time of "need" is absolutely irredeemable. YOU are the disgusting, insulting, rude one. Not them.

Miki

[AnI4AnI]

Nope, sorry guys...my true colors have been shining all along. Don't send people money when they haven't asked for it then expect it back. Lil Crusader, I don't think what you did is anything to be proud of. Practically twisting someone's arm who's in need to take money then hounding them to death to get it back. Most courts and judges would laugh at this ridiculousness. Nowhere was there a loan agreement on my end. If people got it in their own minds it was, then that's their own problem. Next time get it in writing. I've told people I've saved ALL the information and if there ever comes a time where I'm in a position to return the favor then I will. Everyone else has told me it was a gift to help someone in their time of need and I've told them how much I appreciated it. THOSE are the ones who I am obliged to, NOT this person who has hounded me from the get-go, who says she/he exposed me yet I can tell you all right now, when the SE advertisers start sueing search engines for click fraud, people like DGE will be named right along with them so let's talk about peoiple's true colors now. Who have you been stealing from, DGE? All this time it's been innocent, unknowing advertisers on the other side of the search engines, unwittingly paying for dead clicks.

On a side note, I asked Sophie long ago to delete me from GPF because someone who has since been banned was being thoroughly obnoxious and insulting regarding my personal crises. I then came back months later, not knowing the person had been banned and decided to sign up under a different username so I could have the freedom to post about late paying sites so things like THIS wouldn't happen. Susy says it backfired. I think you all should be ashamed of yourselves for the parts you took not only in supporting scum/scam sites and program owners but also promoting them. I think you all should be ashamed for turning something beautiful and kind into a bashing circus against someone who didn't deserve it. I think some of you have nothing left but to insult anyone who speaks up against the pitiful, pathetic practices of site owners who think they're above the law.

Nowhere has it been determined what specifically led to my deletion at ays and all you people can do is twist things around and find new ways to try to cut me down. Well, guess what? I'll outlast you. I've gone up against a lot more powerful people than Linder and I think it's a joke when he comes in and threatens me with lawsuits and lawyers then tries to weasel out of the questions by saying they're just friends....then which is it? Was a friend of his going to bring suit against me or what....still confused here about that indiscrepency.

No, sorry but a little bullying isn't going to run me off. Neither are the insults. If all you AYS followers have to defend your positions with is this then you got a lot more to think about than I do, that's for sure.

[Dawn Michelle]

Anybody else hear violins playing. I do. :cool:

[lil crusader]

Nope, sorry guys...my true colors have been shining all along. Don't send people money when they haven't asked for it then expect it back. Lil Crusader, I don't think what you did is anything to be proud of. Practically twisting someone's arm who's in need to take money then hounding them to death to get it back.

Not saying a single word about it for nearly 2-1/2 years and then only bringing up the subject when I was in a serious situation, much the same as he'd been once upon a time, is "hounding to death"???? Well, if finally having to bring the subject up after all that time had passed makes me a bad person then I guess I'm a bad person. (Apparently he didn't think I was so bad since he apologized profusely over the fact that I even had to ask him in the first place and immediately took full blame for not having made any effort to pay me back sooner!). And now here it is a year later and I'm still waiting for the balance that he promised with regularity "next month" for several months....yet it's me who is wrong?

How old are you anyway?

[bellestraker]

One thing that has always stood out with you ani/wily has been your constant mention of suing someone.

It seems as if you spend your life trying to create or instigate any situation and then if you piss someone off enough that they say something back...
There goes wily running for the lawyer.( Gotta make those "honest" bucks somehow eh?)

Too bad you havent gotten anyone for anything legitimate yet.
But you know what... as much as you completely disgust me...You also scare the hell out of me.

Not even for myself but just knowing that there is someone here...Like a snake - coiled and ready to strike if you can just provoke any reaction which some idiot lawyer may take to court for you.
Too bad Linder is too smart for you.

At least you are learning to be a bit more subtle about your "not soliciting"
Now you just mention that there is probably some lawyer out there who would be willing to take Linder on for you.(Poor little you)

I bet there very well may have been but if he/she had enough brains to get thru law school I am sure he/she would have been able to see through your pathetic attempt to "Hit the big one"

For everyones sake...why dont you run off to MacDonalds and spill a hot coffee on yourself...( That is almopst as ridiculous as your bull and this fool won so who knows.
Then you can stop lurking around forums where you accomplish nothing but upping the sale for pepto bismal.

There is nothing you can not twist to "your scenario".

You trying to teach ethics is like a slug trying to mascarade as a salad.


I'm glad you have me on ignore. lol... ( bull)

Have a good one

Belle

[AnI4AnI]

Lil Crusader, my age and your circumstances has nothing to do with the topic of AYS deleting me simply because they don't like that I had the nerve to confront them. Sorry but in the rush and clamor to deflect from the real issues, it seems several significant things have gone unnoticed.

One, Linder wishes to blame me for the turing number situation which I find totally over the top. According to him, he used them in the beginning but soon stopped due to complaints. Several months later they freak about how many cheaters seem to be in the database then accuse me of harassing him about using them. I don't know what alternate universe they live in at AYS-land but the rationalizations certainly could use some major tweaking. Of course, it looked to me like it was just another excuse to stall payouts, especially if at that time they were still working on last years payouts but let's just skim over that issue and preach ethics to Ani.

Second, there have been some good, kind, considerate people offering to help AYS and have ended up getting insulted and degraded but let's all sit here and not say anything when they try to pass the buck, blaming others for their lousy business decisions.

Third, the topic of Ponzi PTR has gone totally ignored. Let's get back on track and discuss that for a moment, shall we? How 'bout that? How about the fact that, as wagdoll says, most businesses in real life would have to close within a month if they couldn't pay their bills. Let's talk about how it seems very, very few people are getting paid. I know I've lost earnings, a lot. So, not only are they taking in money today to pay people from 10 months ago but basic math tells us the vast majority will never get paid. Oh, but let's just ignore that minor detail and pounce on Ani for something unrelated. Let's not discuss the recent trends of zeroing out entire database earnings just because a PO gets upset. Let's hang Ani for not paying back a few donations but let's not confront the POs about not paying thousands of people. Seems pretty logical to me.

Fourth, people are wondering why AYS deleted me. That question has not been answered. What, specifically did I get deleted for?

Fifth, I'd like nothing more, Linder than to be FAR away from this sorry mess working at a job that actually pays me, but I am disabled. However, rest assured I'm quite familiar with the concept of work since I've supported myself from the age of 16, at times working 3 jobs at once. Had a week or two off each year but very rarely went anywhere if I had bills to pay. Priorities, ya know?

In summary, I just wanted to thank the few people who seem to be able to sift through the riff-raff and deflection here and come to sound and rational conclusions.

[Tmarie99]

How does one "twist arms" on the internet? I have NEVER been intimidated or had my arm twisted in real life, I seriously doubt anyone could do it to me on the INTERNET. LOL LOL

ani/wily/jypsy/whoeveryouaretoday, are you really that easily intimdated on the net?
Dawn Michelle, yes I hear the violins too. They're playing, "My Heart bleeds green peanut butter for the whiny one". LOL

but i'm disabled That explains all the bitter hatefulness.

[tashgate]

How does one "twist arms" on the internet? I have NEVER been intimidated or had my arm twisted in real life, I seriously doubt anyone could do it to me on the INTERNET. LOL LOL

ani/wily/jypsy/whoeveryouaretoday, are you really that easily intimdated on the net?
Dawn Michelle, yes I hear the violins too. They're playing, "My Heart bleeds green peanut butter for the whiny one". LOL

That explains all the bitter hatefulness.

Isn't it amazing how some disabled people can have JOBS and FRIENDS and manage to be NICE, while others take it as an excuse to perpetrate a reign of *****ery unequaled anywhere? ARE you REALLY disabled or have you just been watching too much TV? Is this your latest ploy to get people to send you money? I don't even know that you ARE disabled, you could just be LAZY and LYING. Let's face it, your credibility is shot. If you can use a computer then you can get SOME sort of job if you WANT to, even if it's something you do from home like processing claims or doing medical billing. There are tons of legitimate jobs that can be done from home. I have four friends who do it - three because they want to stay home with their kids and one because she's DISABLED. Now, if you'd shown one freakin' SHRED of humanity anywhere I'd HELP you find something you could do from home, but with your attitude, forget it. I see how you treat people who HELP you.

Jypsy, if you're looking for sympathy you can find it in the dictionary between **** and syphillis. That's the ONLY place you're going to find it with a personality like yours. Why can't you understand that no one wants to talk about "the issues" WITH YOU? We're happy enough to discuss them amongst ourselves as rational, reasonable adults without the mudslinging and the insults and screaming and threats and accusations and every other manner of UGLINESS which is ALL you bring to the table.

Gone up against bigger people than Linder, have you? Well, good for you, I guess that's how you got so far in life, and how you've become the success you are now, winning friends and earning respect everywhere you go. Please note the sarcasm.

btw - how's the whole lawsuit for the "inciting spam" thing going? Last we heard on GPF you were "still in the process of consultation on this". So, how is that going? Still in the process of consultation or should we expect to see you posting your legal team's findings soon?

And, how IS your grandmother? WHEN did you go see her, exactly? Why no report on GPF about it? Did you rent a car and drive out or did you fly? Did you stay in a hotel or with family? I'm sure the people who financed this "trip" or whatever you used the money for would like to see some kind of accounting of how the funds were spent.

[DGE1754]

DGE1754, consider this a formal warning, for violation of the following Forum Rule:


2. Comments meant to incite, embarrass or ridicule another member, including personal attacks;


Future violations of GPTBoycott Rules may result in temporary or permanent exclusion from the GPTBoycott Forums.


Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Diagnostic Criteria
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

4. requires excessive admiration

5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

[tashgate]

WOW! You hit THAT nail pretty squarely on the head! That describes our OP here to a "T"! Only 5 to actually qualify and she seems to hit every single one of the nine!

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Diagnostic Criteria
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

4. requires excessive admiration

5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

[Tmarie99]

Isn't it amazing how some disabled people can have JOBS and FRIENDS and manage to be NICE, while others take it as an excuse to perpetrate a reign of *****ery unequaled anywhere?

Actually, it's been my experience that truly disabled people are mostly not whiners. I know there are bitter people out there, but most adjust and make the most of the lives they have.
Look at Christopher Reeve.... ani/wily/whoeveryouaretoday should look at him. Is she as disabled as him? I seriously doubt it. What does he do? Lawsuits? Whine binges? Constant complaints? Absolutely not.

[AnI4AnI]

Don't remember looking for anyone's sympathy "Linder'sTash"....(ugh)...just answering him about work, k?

Please try to stay on topic and discuss the relevant issues. This is a BOYCOTT forum and discussion board for PAID PROGRAMS not a "let's just keep bashing someone who knows what they're talking about because it's the only thing we have" forum.

How 'bout that SE click fraud, DGE...no comment on that?

[tashgate]

Actually, it's been my experience that truly disabled people are mostly not whiners. I know there are bitter people out there, but most adjust and make the most of the lives they have.
Look at Christopher Reeve.... ani/wily/whoeveryouaretoday should look at him. Is she as disabled as him? I seriously doubt it. What does he do? Lawsuits? Whine binges? Constant complaints? Absolutely not.

I've noticed the same thing. We have quite a few people in the PTR community who really DO have disabilities and really ARE in and out of the hospital quite a lot, and can't hold down jobs outside of the home and NONE of them that I know has a foul personality like this one. In fact, most of them are nicer and more generous with their time and efforts than most people without any health issues.

[tashgate]

Don't remember looking for anyone's sympathy "Linder'sTash"....(ugh)...just answering him about work, k? BTW, isn't that how they name horses?

Please try to stay on topic and discuss the relevant issues. This is a BOYCOTT forum and discussion board for PAID PROGRAMS not a "let's just keep bashing someone who knows what they're talking about because it's the only thing we have" forum.

How 'bout that SE click fraud, DGE...no comment on that?

LOL Oh! Oh! Who am I, now? "I'LL SUE YOU FOR THAT! I'm in the consultation process RIGHT NOW, and I'LL SUE YOU!!!! LEAVE ME ALONE! GET OFF MY CASE! STICK TO THE TOPIC, or I'LL SUE YOU!!!!"

ROFL!!! How about answering the questions about granny? How's she doin'? When did you go? How did you get there? Where did you stay? Where did the money go? I think those are appropriate questions to ask on a forum that's about avoiding SCAMS.

[kglaser]

not a "let's just keep bashing someone who knows what they're talking about because it's the only thing we have" forum.


Wow...that *really* is what you think is going on here, isn't it? :(
I knew I wasn't the only one here who genuinely suspected you needed help--not an insult, an honest observation.

[lil crusader]

In summary, I just wanted to thank the few people who seem to be able to sift through the riff-raff and deflection here and come to sound and rational conclusions.

Quick translation:

1. riff-raff and deflection: Anyone who dares to disagree with an1.

2. sound and rational conclusions: Anyone who agrees with every word she says.

:)

[impergraf]

One, Linder wishes to blame me for the turing number situation which I find totally over the top. According to him, he used them in the beginning but soon stopped due to complaints. Several months later they freak about how many cheaters seem to be in the database then accuse me of harassing him about using them. I don't know what alternate universe they live in at AYS-land but the rationalizations certainly could use some major tweaking. Of course, it looked to me like it was just another excuse to stall payouts, especially if at that time they were still working on last years payouts but let's just skim over that issue and preach ethics to Ani.

Turing numbers have proven to be NOT effective in deterring cheaters. It only slightly helps find the members using bots. But there is no calculating exactly how many hits to a turing number to log in it takes to constitute a cheater. How many times will the image numbers not show up on someone's computer due to computer problems? Some people are not as savvy as you claim to be about clearing temp files, re-booting, etc to see those images. So if they hit 10, 20, 30 per day, are they cheaters? Some people have bad eyesight, and cannot see the numbers that well? Are they cheaters?If you ran any program, you would see that. But instead, you choose to run your mouth about things you know nothing about.

Second, there have been some good, kind, considerate people offering to help AYS and have ended up getting insulted and degraded but let's all sit here and not say anything when they try to pass the buck, blaming others for their lousy business decisions.

Exactly who are these people you are referring to? We have taken advice from many of our members, but of course that doesn't count. I suppose that is because they don't have your seal of approval.

Third, the topic of Ponzi PTR has gone totally ignored. Let's get back on track and discuss that for a moment, shall we? How 'bout that? How about the fact that, as wagdoll says, most businesses in real life would have to close within a month if they couldn't pay their bills. Let's talk about how it seems very, very few people are getting paid. I know I've lost earnings, a lot. So, not only are they taking in money today to pay people from 10 months ago but basic math tells us the vast majority will never get paid. Oh, but let's just ignore that minor detail and pounce on Ani for something unrelated. Let's not discuss the recent trends of zeroing out entire database earnings just because a PO gets upset. Let's hang Ani for not paying back a few donations but let's not confront the POs about not paying thousands of people. Seems pretty logical to me.

Oh yeah, that is not off topic. LOL. I thought this thread was about your deletion from AYS? Am I wrong? But for the hell of it, when you can prove that we are any form of a Ponzi scheme, I will surely listen. Your homespun law means nothing. btw, no member of AYS is an employee of AYS. Try reading the terms, and that is a term that has never changed.

Fourth, people are wondering why AYS deleted me. That question has not been answered. What, specifically did I get deleted for?

LOL. You seem to be the only one wondering about your deletion. But it is due to these never ending threads with your non stop bashing of not only AYS, but many others YOU disapprove of. Nobody has to endure the kind of harassment myself and others have put up with for the last 8 months. No one. And I will not pay someone that has made personal attacks on myself, the staff and members of AYS. You have done far more damage to the PTR industry than you have ever done good. You should feel proud.

Fifth, I'd like nothing more, Linder than to be FAR away from this sorry mess working at a job that actually pays me, but I am disabled. However, rest assured I'm quite familiar with the concept of work since I've supported myself from the age of 16, at times working 3 jobs at once. Had a week or two off each year but very rarely went anywhere if I had bills to pay. Priorities, ya know?

I don't believe one word of that. But if it were true, just how many of those "jobs" were you fired from for shooting of your mouth? I know of no employer anywhere that would listen to your garbage more than 5 minutes without kicking you out the door.

As tashgate said, there are many jobs out there for people with computer skills that can work from home. But I don't believe you have ever even tried to find anything of this type, you would much rather sit, click meaningless links and call that a job. In my opinion, you are looking for nothing more than easy money, and when you don't get it, you bash. You are self centered, self righteous and a general overall pain in the ***.

Don't remember looking for anyone's sympathy "Linder'sTash"....(ugh)...just answering him about work, k? BTW, isn't that how they name horses?

And that comment was completely uncalled for. This thoroughly proves that you are one sick, miserable woman. Seek help.

[lil crusader]

Wow...that *really* is what you think is going on here, isn't it? :(
I knew I wasn't the only one here who genuinely suspected you needed help--not an insult, an honest observation.

Katie - remember how you tend to put yourself down as not being able to state things as clearly as you feel others do sometimes?

Guess what girlfriend......You CAN do it too, because you just did!

[Jaybees]

One, Linder wishes to blame me for the turing number situation which I find totally over the top. According to him, he used them in the beginning but soon stopped due to complaints. Several months later they freak about how many cheaters seem to be in the database then accuse me of harassing him about using them. I don't know what alternate universe they live in at AYS-land but the rationalizations certainly could use some major tweaking. Of course, it looked to me like it was just another excuse to stall payouts, especially if at that time they were still working on last years payouts but let's just skim over that issue and preach ethics to Ani..

Sound like you may have an opinion (I bolded for your reference) but not Linder?

Second, there have been some good, kind, considerate people offering to help AYS and have ended up getting insulted and degraded but let's all sit here and not say anything when they try to pass the buck, blaming others for their lousy business decisions.

Where? When? Who? I want to read them all if you kindly provide me to find the thread(s). I am surely would interesting in finding out the truth too. So far the link provided here to just showed me what you've done in the past, not AYS!

Third, the topic of Ponzi PTR has gone totally ignored. Let's get back on track and discuss that for a moment, shall we? How 'bout that? How about the fact that, as wagdoll says, most businesses in real life would have to close within a month if they couldn't pay their bills. Let's talk about how it seems very, very few people are getting paid. I know I've lost earnings, a lot. So, not only are they taking in money today to pay people from 10 months ago but basic math tells us the vast majority will never get paid. Oh, but let's just ignore that minor detail and pounce on Ani for something unrelated. Let's not discuss the recent trends of zeroing out entire database earnings just because a PO gets upset. Let's hang Ani for not paying back a few donations but let's not confront the POs about not paying thousands of people. Seems pretty logical to me.

Well, even if I wanted to talk (discuss) about those ponzi ptr, I am afraid to claim that I am an expert in either industry and or the legal site of it, beside my way of looking the whole PTRs thing is at seems different with what Wagdol had describe on his/her post. I can though admit to accept the different and wish to not discuss any further, beside your post is actually talking about YOUR account being deleted is not it, and not about AYS being ponzi or not? If you want your post being discuss, why encourage other to go off topic?

Fourth, people are wondering why AYS deleted me. That question has not been answered. What, specifically did I get deleted for?
I can swear to you that it has been answered (many times that is). If you so choose NOT TO LISTEN, I guess the problem is yours!

Fifth, I'd like nothing more, Linder than to be FAR away from this sorry mess working at a job that actually pays me, but I am disabled. However, rest assured I'm quite familiar with the concept of work since I've supported myself from the age of 16, at times working 3 jobs at once. Had a week or two off each year but very rarely went anywhere if I had bills to pay. Priorities, ya know??
How did you know that Linder went anywhere on his real job vacation? I remember he did actually deleted Moni on the day of his vacation, that is work to me, but maybe not to you eh?

Now, before I forgotten lets go back view post below in particular this part:Nowhere has it been determined what specifically led to my deletion at ays and all you people can do is twist things around and find new ways to try to cut me down. Well, guess what? I'll outlast you. I've gone up against a lot more powerful people than Linder and I think it's a joke when he comes in and threatens me with lawsuits and lawyers then tries to weasel out of the questions by saying they're just friends....then which is it? Was a friend of his going to bring suit against me or what....still confused here about that indiscrepency.
I swear that I saw YOU are the one who are seeking lawyer and Linder did take your challange, am I wrong?

In any rate, I sure agree with you to just closed all this saga here and now. It sure does not looks good for you to be exposed by your own little game. Your question on why were you being deleted had been answered and the rest is just all about YOU!

[DGE1754]

How 'bout that SE click fraud, DGE...no comment on that?


Psssttt jypsy/Starfire/Wily1North and the future name of the week

SUE ME ;)

[tashgate]

Katie - remember how you tend to put yourself down as not being able to state things as clearly as you feel others do sometimes?

Guess what girlfriend......You CAN do it too, because you just did!

Katie is one of THE most effective communicators around. No matter how she puts it we always get her POINT. Not only that, but, like Pam, she stands up for what she believes it. She's had personal struggles and challenges and always seems to come through them without BASHING or BLAMING the rest of the world. Oh, and just like Pam, it's possible to DISAGREE with Katie without getting the rough side of her tongue AND without being called names, demeaned or belittled. Katie and Pam are strong women with strong convictions and good communication skills.

Darn fine PEOPLE, too.

[tashgate]

Psssttt jypsy/Starfire/Wily1North and the future name of the week

SUE ME ;)

She's "in the consultation process" with her legal team now about that whole "inciting to spam" thing from a few months ago, still. I'm sure Johnny Cochran will be called in to handle her claims about you soon enough. LOL

[lil crusader]

((((( Tash ))))) and right back atcha!

:)

[AnI4AnI]

Actually the question of why I was deleted hasn't been answered appropriately. Still waiting. All I saw was some broad-based accusation that can't be substantiated. No one has a right to confront this particular PO about anything, apparently. Sell your soul to the devil for a lousy 200 bucks, I guess. Well, not this person. No one controls me like that and the only thing I'm bitter about is all the wasted time and effort I put into these stupid sorry scam programs, most of which are still being promoted. How sick. Just keep robbing from unsuspecting, innocent people then blame folks like me who have the guts to stand up to you. Nice. Real nice.

[lil crusader]

And that comment was completely uncalled for. This thoroughly proves that you are one sick, miserable woman. Seek help.

Linder: You and I don't agree on too many things, but on this particular point we are in total agreement. I would hope that anyone else who feels this way would do what I just did and that's to go back to the original post in which the comment about Tash was made, click on the little triangle icon in the top right corner next to the post #, and let the forum mods know how you feel about it. (It was post #158, one page back).

[AnI4AnI]

It wasn't a comment, it was a question. I was simply wondering if they named horses like that. If you people think that was insulting, look at your own posts. Look at how off topic and utterly insulting you've been to me. I trust the mods here will act accordingly.

[tashgate]

Actually the question of why I was deleted hasn't been answered appropriately. Still waiting. All I saw was some broad-based accusation that can't be substantiated. No one has a right to confront this particular PO about anything, apparently. Sell your soul to the devil for a lousy 200 bucks, I guess. Well, not this person. No one controls me like that and the only thing I'm bitter about is all the wasted time and effort I put into these stupid sorry scam programs, most of which are still being promoted. How sick. Just keep robbing from unsuspecting, innocent people then blame folks like me who have the guts to stand up to you. Nice. Real nice.

I hold in my hand the world's smallest violin, and it's playing just for you, Norma Rae, Ralph Nader, Karen Silkwood or whoever you're comparing yourself to today. Are you still "getting the job done" as you so loudly proclaimed not too long ago?

People confront this particular PO about things all the time. I don't understand what you don't understand about your presentation of yourself being the problem. What kinds of actual jobs DID you have?

Again - how's your grandmother? When did you go see her? How did you get there? Where did you stay? Let's talk about the facts.

[Rob]

Please calm down and get back to the point, before this thread is closed.

All I ask is for some discussion of serious issues, with respect to the Forum Rules, which are linked to from every Forum page, and can be found at http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3246.

Thank you,
Rob, GPTBoycott.Com

[AnI4AnI]

Well, gee...how everyone scatters when the personal attacks are stopped and the serious issues are brought to the forefront once again. Guess the silence speaks for itself.

Rob, I've had enough of the childishness. I opened this thread to notify others about a particular option they had with regards to late/non-paying sites and have been the brunt of personal attacks, insults and lies, none of which has anything at all to do with being wrongly deleted from a site where I've spent well over 70 hours clicking links only to have all that money go to the PO which the advertisers paid the PO to pay me with. I'd really like this thread to be closed, please. Thanks.

[tashgate]

Well, gee...how everyone scatters when the personal attacks are stopped and the serious issues are brought to the forefront once again. Guess the silence speaks for itself.

Rob, I've had enough of the childishness. I opened this thread to notify others about a particular option they had with regards to late/non-paying sites and have been the brunt of personal attacks, insults and lies, none of which has anything at all to do with being wrongly deleted from a site where I've spent well over 70 hours clicking links only to have all that money go to the PO which the advertisers paid the PO to pay me with. I'd really like this thread to be closed, please. Thanks.

Personally, I'm glad you opened this thread, because a lot of truth was brought to light, it's just not a truth that you like. All you would have had to have done to garner a lot of support for your cause was apologize sincerely to the people you've wronged and for the way you've behaved. I'm sure you would have gotten a lot more backing and respect.

The truth will always find you, no matter what user name you choose next.

[impergraf]

Well, gee...how everyone scatters when the personal attacks are stopped and the serious issues are brought to the forefront once again. Guess the silence speaks for itself.

Rob, I've had enough of the childishness. I opened this thread to notify others about a particular option they had with regards to late/non-paying sites and have been the brunt of personal attacks, insults and lies, none of which has anything at all to do with being wrongly deleted from a site where I've spent well over 70 hours clicking links only to have all that money go to the PO which the advertisers paid the PO to pay me with. I'd really like this thread to be closed, please. Thanks.

You poor thing. I agree, close this thread as your original question has been answered numerous times. Whether the answer is to your satisfaction, that is just too damn bad.

[DGE1754]

You poor thing. I agree, close this thread as your original question has been answered numerous times. Whether the answer is to your satisfaction, that is just too damn bad.

LOL best laugh today thanks ;)

[Tmarie99]

Actually the question of why I was deleted hasn't been answered appropriately. Still waiting. All I saw was some broad-based accusation that can't be substantiated. No one has a right to confront this particular PO about anything, apparently. Sell your soul to the devil for a lousy 200 bucks, I guess. Well, not this person. No one controls me like that and the only thing I'm bitter about is all the wasted time and effort I put into these stupid sorry scam programs, most of which are still being promoted. How sick. Just keep robbing from unsuspecting, innocent people then blame folks like me who have the guts to stand up to you. Nice. Real nice.
Perhaps you were deleted because the owner thinks you're a butthead. I know, you wouldn't last a day if I had anything to say about your membership.

[tashgate]

Perhaps you were deleted because the owner thinks you're a butthead. I know, you wouldn't last a day if I had anything to say about your membership.

LOL You really do have a way with words! I surely do thank you for the most succinct explanation of the situation I've ever seen. I love it!

[wagdoll]

Second, there have been some good, kind, considerate people offering to help AYS and have ended up getting insulted and degraded but let's all sit here and not say anything when they try to pass the buck, blaming others for their lousy business decisions

I remember that happening to someone good who offered suggestions, was taken up on the offer to discuss them further and then was subjected to a disgusting hate campaign full of lies and personal attacks for his troubles.

[impergraf]

I remember that happening to someone good who offered suggestions, was taken up on the offer to discuss them further and then was subjected to a disgusting hate campaign full of lies and personal attacks for his troubles.

Yes, we did speak to this particular person you mention. And no, we did not take his suggestions. Are we obligated in any way to take someone's suggestions? No, we are not. We listened and declined.

This person then took it upon himself to declare publicly at GPF that we (and others) were sending him bad traffic and "he would evaluate us". There are much better ways of doing business than publicly making statements like that, such as a personal email to those he has a problem with. That is how most people do business offline, why should it be different online?

Due to that statement about bad traffic, we removed his advertising from our program (as he didn't want it anyway). Then his people decided to make a big fuss about us not allowing his advertising anymore, and the BS really got going.

So back to your statement, he was heard and we just did not like his suggestions. There was no personal attack made by us until he decided to make problems and, in my opinion, unfounded allegations that we were sending him bad traffic. Not us. Let's try to keep the facts straight.

[AnI4AnI]

LOL You really do have a way with words! I surely do thank you for the most succinct explanation of the situation I've ever seen. I love it!

I kinda like the Kentucky Derby, myself. :cool:

[tashgate]

I kinda like the Kentucky Derby, myself. :cool:

Yeah? Maybe you'll come back and cry about some dying relative there and you can get a free trip.

How's your grandmother doing, by the way? Oh, and are you declaring that income on your taxes? Do they have a category for "scammed from people who were too nice to realize I was con-artist"?

[AnI4AnI]

Uh, no...I think the facts were that Rod didn't want to be in a position to absorb YOUR debts, Linder. Smart man. At least he pays his members.

[tashgate]

Uh, no...I think the facts were that Rod didn't want to be in a position to absorb YOUR debts, Linder. Smart man. At least he pays his members.

Poor guy gets scammed by some of them, too. At least he did by one.

[AnI4AnI]

How's the payments coming along, LindersTash? <gag> Have they caught up to ohhhhhh.....let's see.....this year yet?

[tashgate]

How's the payments coming along, LindersTash? <gag> Have they caught up to ohhhhhh.....let's see.....this year yet?

Well, I know ONE person who won't be getting anything but a lump of coal in her stocking this year.

Are you going to go home for the holidays this year? Get some of that good "wood stove cooking" from gramma? <gag>

BTW, if you're so curious, you CAN still sign in on that forum as Jypsy (or should you rename yourself Jyp-me, poor martyr) and read and post about your concerns there.

[AnI4AnI]

You just don't seem to get it do you, LindersTash. Giddyup.

I think Rob mentioned sticking to the topic, if I'm not mistaken. If you've nothing intelligent to offer, I believe you're breaking the rules by posting rude, obnoxious things meant to incite.

[AnI4AnI]

Not interested in your forum, ya lie down with dogs ya get up with fleas but thank you for the invite. ;)

[kglaser]

Katie is one of THE most effective communicators around. No matter how she puts it we always get her POINT. Not only that, but, like Pam, she stands up for what she believes it. She's had personal struggles and challenges and always seems to come through them without BASHING or BLAMING the rest of the world. Oh, and just like Pam, it's possible to DISAGREE with Katie without getting the rough side of her tongue AND without being called names, demeaned or belittled. Katie and Pam are strong women with strong convictions and good communication skills.

Darn fine PEOPLE, too.

Tash, that was a really nice wonderful thing to say...You sure know how to make a girl feel good! :)

[tashgate]

You just don't seem to get it do you, LindersTash. Giddyup.

I think Rob mentioned sticking to the topic, if I'm not mistaken. If you've nothing intelligent to offer, I believe you're breaking the rules by posting rude, obnoxious things meant to incite.

LOL You're the one who just doesn't get it. And you never will, because you're just exactly how DGE described in her earlier post. She really pegged you.

As far as posting rude, obnoxious things meant to incite, I suggest you look at your own posts.

How about telling us the truth, for once? Fess up. What did you do with the money? We know it wasn't a trip to gramma's house.

[tashgate]

Not interested in your forum, ya lie down with dogs ya get up with fleas but thank you for the invite. ;)

You didn't seem to have any trouble stealing money from some of those "dogs", did you?

[Rob]

This thread is now closed.

TMarie99, tashgate, AnI4AnI: please consider this an informal warning as to your future conduct, and please familiarise yourself with the Forum Rules.

Just because one person breaks the rules - does not give you the right to do so.

Rob