Seraphs Designs - Waste Of Time!

[KahunaPrizes]

Hi,

I have been a SeraphDesigns customer for the past 2 years (If I recall correctly). I have been overall satisfied with her designs and artwork.

However, recently I have encountered some difficulty working with her for some reason. I recently requested an Email Template design for the site KahunaPrizes. I IM'ed her the info and/or emailed her the information about the design and what was the purpose. Once she quoted the design she told me it would take a few days to get it done. She had other orders before mines that came through the weekend and she was working based on this priorities.

Like a week passed and I IM'ed her about it and she told me that she was having issues with her PC that was overheated or something like that and she event sent me a screenshot about it. So I stood waiting for the design.

When I contacted her again about she claimed that she was still working with other orders and that mines was not processed yet. I kept waiting for the design. A few of her reasons was that she was in the hospital once or twice and that she was also having power issues due to the passing of the Hurricaine throughout this time.

At the time she sent me a preliminary mockup I was dissapointed because we found that she had done a lazy job. We've seen other past works from her including my personal designs, and we felt that she did a very vague job with the design of the email template. And since we were paying for it, I think we deserve to critique the design and make recommendations to our liking.

Once we mentioned her about our opinion in regards to the design, she was kinda concerned about it. She used the excuse that shiftcode does not handle much graphical content in those types of designs, etc etc. After making all those judgements, she did agree to make further changes to the design. A fact was, this was still a mockup and not the final design.

Once we received the new mockup, we were still not satisfied with the final design, but we wanted to implement the Email Template so we decided to go with that design. To all of this, she asked for 50% deposit upfront. I have never disagreed with this in the past with her. I have spent at least $2K with her as a client, and we have over 15 or 20 invoices on file and she knows I always pay her and if I can't I'll let her know why (Paypal bank transfer, waiting on payment from networks, etc) and let her know when to expect the payment.

Once that last mockup was sent she was demanding her 50% upfront. I kinda got pissed at a point because she was being pushy and demanding about a merely $25 when we have done projects in the past of over $300 or $400 and the initial payment has never been a serious concern before and I had to wait like 3 weeks to finally get a mockup that I was nor overall satisfied with, so I was like: "Hey you made us wait like 3 weeks, can't you wait till this is installed for the payment"? but I do understand that this is her profession and that she lives from doing these designs so I will understand why could she be pushy and demanding in regards to this. I will not argue with that.

When I told her that it would be paid once her coder (Kevin) installed the email template and the invoice would be paid in Full. She then told that kevin does not work with her under the same company and that Kevin is just a third party contractor she works with. That I'd have to get a quote from Kevin for the installation and when it would be installed.

So I asked her if the installation was included in the $50 quote she made, and she said NO. I was then pissed because to my understanding, the design included installation costs. We even talked about installation before the quote was sent because we were unsure if the template would work under shiftcode terms for what I wanted to use the Design for. In the invoice that was sent, there was no mention of any "Installation Costs" or any additional costs to the design. The only thing written was that Invoices that are due for more than 30days are automatically charged 5% more and that the purchase was bound by her terms & conditions. I clicked the link for the terms and conditions here: http://www.seraphsdesigns.com/licence.php and nothing pops up. So let this be clear, since nothin appears there I have no way of justifying if the Terms & Conditions do state any Installation Costs. So if by the time Seraph replies to this thread and that link is fixed and for some magical reason terms and conditions appear related to installation costs... this should be avoided because that link is not working and has not been working for the duration of this dilemma.

At the end I still wanted the design. I told her if we could do the design with installation for $50. Which was reasonable because i had waited over 3 weeks for this design and I was never notified of additional charges and I had been a longtime customer, so the least I thought she could do was include installation with the price of the design. She said No. That she can't force Kevin to include a free installation and that she was not responsible for this. I then said, well can you give me a discount on the design so that when I go to Kevin, the net cost for me breaks even to the $50 that I thought would be charged. (Like say she gave me $10 discount for the trouble and I got Kevin to install it for $15, that breaks even at $55 and I was OK with that) but she did not agree to that and she was pissed because I was "devaluating her work as a designer" and asking for discounts when her prices were really cheap, etc.

At the end, I just did not want to deal with this. I was not satisified with the end design and was not OK to pay that much for such a vague layout and to top that off, I'd have to pay Installation Costs.

To this effect, I did not SCAM Seraph as she claims. I am just not paying for a design that I feel is:
1. Over Priced
2. Vague layout (Looks to similar to the design of the site. While this is OK, there was barely any creativity used, all of it was mostly copy paste from the site design persay)
3. Not Satisfied with the work overall.

So note to Seraph, I would like for you to stop telling people that I scammed you, which I clearly did not. We have done business in the past and this is the first time any issues have arisen.

I tried to solve this via AIM but she was overly rude at the end of our conversation and she just ended the covnersation like this:


(3:29:07 PM) SeraphsDesigns: The fact that you deceived ME is the scam
(3:29:08 PM) SeraphsDesigns: Good day
(3:29:13 PM) p4fwilito: good day
(3:29:24 PM) SeraphsDesigns: You are blocked from this point forth, from my IM, from GPTApps, and GPTReview


To this effect, I have no choice but to tell my side of the story and to clear my name and avoid her from ruining my reputation online.

Thanks,

Wigberto Maldonado
-KahunaPrizes Owner
-Points4Fun Owner

[edsinferno]

ive known seraph for some time. ive also had run ins w josh and wilito. i can tell you that it is common practice for her to have someone else do the coding so i dont see what your issue is. seraph has never been anything but up and up and honest w all of her customers. you bought a template. you didnt buy a full foledged design. that is evident because you yourself stated it was only 50 dollars. anyone who knows her knows that for 50 bucks you get a template. her full designs are worth much more. so stop complaining. pay the lady and move on. you guys already dont have the best rep in the industry thanks to the earlier idiocies of yer underage and ignorant partner josh. id stop now because seraph is very respected in this industry and has done work for many of us. its very unlikely w all the holes in your story that people will side with you in this instance. always someone trying to get over.

lastly so what it took 3 weeks. big deal. thats what happens when you hire one of the busiest designers in the industry. if it was my business id be working on the people who paid first as well.

[GPSBlack]

You are not the only person she has had this "attitude" towards. I have dealt with the mediocre wrath of seraph a few times, I wouldn't let it bother you much as she has alot less pull then she thinks she has.

[KKwebcoding]

Seraph' and I work on a Queue based system. Once a deposit is payed we add you to our work queue at the bottom of the list. Its a standard first-come first-serve model. And we are often very busy working day-and-night to complete designs for people.

In this instance, we have copies of communications that state that he needs to hire me to install the email template. Jeannine has no HTML skills, so for Kahuna who has worked with her over hte past 2 years, and having me do coding work for him on most of those instances; it's a bit odd that in this case he assumed that $50 would be the entire cost of the template.

When we showed him the communications records he stated that he didn't realize that is what we meant, and while its unfortunate that we apparently wern't clear enough for him, it doesn't change the circumstances that I'm not going to do work for free.

The worst part of it all is that Kahuna Prizes never even bothered to contact me for the cost of the coding! He could have asked me, and I may have given him a discount because of his confusion, and email templates are usually easy to do and not very expensive. So he is complaining about cost that he doesn't even know what it is!

In the end, he hired someone to perform labor, and isn't paying them. This is a very common occurrence with us. This is a shame because it means we have to raise our prices for all the honest people, take longer completing designs by wasting our time on projects we'll never get paid for, and charging higher and higher deposits to prevent loss.

[KahunaPrizes]

ive known seraph for some time. ive also had run ins w josh and wilito. i can tell you that it is common practice for her to have someone else do the coding so i dont see what your issue is. seraph has never been anything but up and up and honest w all of her customers. you bought a template. you didnt buy a full foledged design. that is evident because you yourself stated it was only 50 dollars. anyone who knows her knows that for 50 bucks you get a template. her full designs are worth much more. so stop complaining. pay the lady and move on. you guys already dont have the best rep in the industry thanks to the earlier idiocies of yer underage and ignorant partner josh. id stop now because seraph is very respected in this industry and has done work for many of us. its very unlikely w all the holes in your story that people will side with you in this instance. always someone trying to get over.

lastly so what it took 3 weeks. big deal. thats what happens when you hire one of the busiest designers in the industry. if it was my business id be working on the people who paid first as well.

Like I've said. I've done business with Seraph for quite some time. For mostly everything really (GPT Sites, Niche Landing Pages for Marketing, Icons, Business Development, etc). I've never had an issue with her. Everything has been clear from the beginning.

When I say I bought a template, it was an Email Template not a GPT Site template.

I'm not telling people to side with me or Seraph. Every story has two versions. She is telling people that we scammed her. After trying to solve it directly with her like responsible people do, she decided that blocking me and not dealing with me was a better solution than actually dealing with the problem.

Now... What I am trying to point out here was what happened. And to also give a heads up to people. A note to Seraph and her team, to avoid issues like this, I would personally send out a document to anyone interested that they'd have to either sign electronically or somehow to make sure everything is stipulated before hand (sort of a contract). That way you can guarantee that you have informed your clients on what your price includes and what it does NOT include.

You are not the only person she has had this "attitude" towards. I have dealt with the mediocre wrath of seraph a few times, I wouldn't let it bother you much as she has alot less pull then she thinks she has.

Thanks for pointing that out. It's the first I actually had this issue. But it's this small issue that will keep me from doing business with her again. So because of her attitude towards and for something so insignificant ($50 in comparison with the over $2K I have spent with her this is just a 2% of all the money I have spent with her) and because of that, she just lost another client. Sure, she might get other customers, but I think the success of every company is in recurring customers. For every bad customer a business received they loose 3 or more other potential clients because of bad experiences. When you have a happy customer then you get that same customer again and that customer brings you in more customers. That was my case until a few weeks ago.

[Seraph]

Disclaimer: Incoming wall of text, sorry everyone!

First off, I'd like to say hi Wilom, not sure why you had to post under a new name, but yes, this is Wilom, nee GPT4Free, currently owner of Points4Fun and KahunaPrizes.

I'd like to address a few points he brought up in his post, and as he said, provide the other side of this story as well. I'm not trying to bias anyone against him, I merely am stating the fact that yes, I was scammed by him. I have not stated that you shouldn't join his sites, or should refrain from conducting business with him. I have only said that I, personally, was scammed by him, and that due to this incident, I do not wish to continue any business relationship with him in the future.

Like I've said. I've done business with Seraph for quite some time. For mostly everything really (GPT Sites, Niche Landing Pages for Marketing, Icons, Business Development, etc). I've never had an issue with her. Everything has been clear from the beginning.

Exactly. Which is why I explained everything beforehand, as well as the fact that I do not include coding and installation. I never have, and for years you've known this. So to claim that you were unclear on this is rather interesting, since you have, many times, contacted Kevin separately for coding items I have created for you.

I'm not telling people to side with me or Seraph. Every story has two versions. She is telling people that we scammed her. After trying to solve it directly with her like responsible people do, she decided that blocking me and not dealing with me was a better solution than actually dealing with the problem.

Yes, you scammed me.

A) You said you were sending the deposit, which I require of ALL clients. Again, this is something you and I have always dealt with, so I'm not sure why you'd think this time would be different. I was in the wrong for trusting you to actually be sending the deposit like you said you were.

B) When the work was completed, after I offered to fix up things to further help, you refused, and instead demanded discounts. That's not fair to me, not at all. Then you refused to pay. Work was completed, you promised to pay, and I'm not getting paid. That's a scam.

C) You banned me off your site when I had a balance, and referrals earning me more. That was petty, but a part as well in why I told you that you were not allowed to purchase anything else from my businesses, nor deal with any of them. Its called the "right to refuse service". I suppose you have that right in your GPT site, except that I agreed to a Terms of Service stating that my account would only be terminated if I violated said terms. Which I did not.


Now... What I am trying to point out here was what happened. And to also give a heads up to people. A note to Seraph and her team, to avoid issues like this, I would personally send out a document to anyone interested that they'd have to either sign electronically or somehow to make sure everything is stipulated before hand (sort of a contract). That way you can guarantee that you have informed your clients on what your price includes and what it does NOT include.


We do. I actually sent it to you, but "Email Template Design" apparently means "Email Template Design, Slicing, and Integration" to you, somehow. :P


Thanks for pointing that out. It's the first I actually had this issue. But it's this small issue that will keep me from doing business with her again. So because of her attitude towards and for something so insignificant ($50 in comparison with the over $2K I have spent with her this is just a 2% of all the money I have spent with her) and

No offense? $2k is small potatoes compared to what most people spend with my company. Just this week, someone dropped $3,000 on a project, without a single request for discounts, special treatment, or anything. And that's their FIRST "small project". So I'm not sure if you think that due to what you've spent, I should kotow to your every wish, but that's not how it works with me. I treat everyone fairly, but you've always expected me to treat you EXTRA special. That's discrimination against my other clientele, and something I refuse to do.

Secondly, that's OfferScript you're talking to, who's held a grudge against me ever since I've refused to condone his business practices by supporting his script. I wouldn't be one to throw my backing behind someone who is known to scam customers in his own way, lol.

because of that, she just lost another client.

Actually, if I recall the conversation correctly, I told you that I didn't want to deal with your business ever again due to how you've acted towards me. You never once said "you've lost my business". I actually fired you. In the pursuit of disclosure:

wilom92: ive been a long time customer and quite frankly.... i feel less appreciated recently
Seraph: To be quite frank, you've been extremely rude to me and my business
Seraph: You've constantly demanded discounts. Demanded and ordered me to give you them.
Seraph: I'm a professional business, but you've treated me like anything but.
Seraph: I normally charge $100 for landing page designs, I gave you one for only $65, and then you told me you wanted me to lower it to $35.
Seraph: Thats actually insulting.
Seraph: I'm going to send you the invoice for the email only.
Seraph: I'd rather you get someone else to do the landing page, because honestly, this treatment you have given me....nobody deserves it.

In all honesty? $50 would be worth it, because you've always been one of the most troublesome clients, who constantly berates me and demands discounts on top of discounts. Its a timewaster, and I feel actually like a burden's been lifted off my shoulders since I told you I'd prefer you found another designer for your other projects.

Sure, she might get other customers, but I think the success of every company is in recurring customers. For every bad customer a business received they loose 3 or more other potential clients because of bad experiences. When you have a happy customer then you get that same customer again and that customer brings you in more customers. That was my case until a few weeks ago.

In further all honesty? Ever since I posted that status, I've had an amazing outpouring of support and agreement. I've heard at least a dozen stories this week of people's dealings with you, and how they completely supported my decision.

Several customers have stepped forward with new orders because of it, and I suppose I should thank you in a way. The $50 of yours I'll probably be claiming as a bad debt has provided me with over $1k in sales, a new item to provide on my website, and a feeling of freedom from telling you "no more abuse" that has cheered me up quite a bit.

Yes, there are two sides of every story, and that's my side. I feel better having moved on, and having aired out my part of the "dirty laundry".

[Jennifer72]

First off, I'd like to say hi Wilom, not sure why you had to post under a new name, but yes, this is Wilom, nee GPT4Free, currently owner of Points4Fun and KahunaPrizes.

I'm not finding matching IP's (and yes I know it's possible to not have matching IP's) and if I did - the accounts would be banned for dupe accounts.

If another mod finds this to be the case, then it will be taken care of.

Continue...

[Seraph]

Well, if you look at his other post with this account, it's with the signature of Wigberto Maldonaldo. The owner of Points4Fun.

http://website.informer.com/Points4Fun+Wigberto+Maldonado+%28%29.html

http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/member.php?u=17415 Same guy, KahunaPrizes is just his new secondary site.

[Jennifer72]

Well, if you look at his other post with this account, it's with the signature of Wigberto Maldonaldo. The owner of Points4Fun.

http://website.informer.com/Points4Fun+Wigberto+Maldonado+%28%29.html

http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/member.php?u=17415 Same guy, KahunaPrizes is just his new secondary site.

Thanks for that info.

Closing this thread since the OP has duplicate accounts and in violation of the dupe account rule.