BGPaymail

[ianh]

i think this site should be seriously considered for a boycott for breach of terms

personally i waited 5 weeks for my first payout

my second payout to this date has taken 38 days and i am sill waiting

very bad for a site that has this much experience

[saxo110]

I agree. I had to keep e-mailing the owner for cashout.
I quit after he finally payed after terms.

Then when I finally got payed he accused me of complaining.

This site has somehow got a good rep. But in my experence it sucked.

[dcwike]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Pity to have to wait so long to be paid, isn't it? And, now, you want to hurry up and boycott a program that DOES pay, even if, but a few accounts out of over 11,000 members get bogged down in the request system, where many, many requests are wrongfully being made because they didn't read the terms?

You want to boycott a program where the webmaster has gone far beyond his duty to make payments to members by check because they didn't have a PP account that accepted credit card payments?

You want to boycott a program where the webmaster paid a member, even AFTER that member quit the program?

Is this webmaster a scam artist?
Is this program unsustainable?
Has he cheated any member or advertiser out of money or ads?
Does this program run a Ponzi, pyramid, or MLM?

You know, out of all the webmasters out there, this is one of the few who absolutely does NOT count on future funds to pay his members - which is the main cause for so many PTR failures.

As long as an account is in good standing, that member will get paid. This program has a proven record of that.

So, here you are, admitting that this webmaster did pay, and even admitted this webmaster DID respond to your requests, and you want to boycott?

[saxo110]

I agree this site should NOT be boycotted, But I think it deserves a place on the watch list for breach of terms.

My experence with this site was VERY BAD, And I wouldent trust them with 1 cent

There are soo many honest fast earners and fast payers out there and its not worth wasteing time clicking for this site,

QUOTE: You know, out of all the webmasters out there, this is one of the few who absolutely does NOT count on future funds to pay his members - which is the main cause for so many PTR failures.

So my question would be: Why does he pay out of terms, If he does not count on future funds, I guess he must have all the money to pay members, So why does he pay out of terms..

These is off course exempt to a few members who he is friends with who get cashout soo much quicker.

Members are all the same, Friends etc should NOT come before his other members..

[mrskitty]

I've been with the program since March. I haven't cashed out yet but am afraid to. Maybe it's because of this, but I don't want it boycotted.

[dcwike]

More than likely, you won't have to request payment.

Granted, I DID request payment the first time I reached payout (after making sure I earned $3 in "personal" earnings, as per tos requirements), but, only to find out if this program paid. (at the time there were more scam sites out there)

After that? Notta. Zilch. I've been paid before I even realized I reached payouts. But, again. That was before memberships reached over 10,000, and there were far less "iligitimate" requests.

That's the sad thing about PTR. The more members, the more people that misunderstand or don't read or follow tos. More cheaters, you know the drill. So, IF your account is in good standing, payments may lag when there's an influx of requests for payments, too. But, usually, unless there is a problem, and he will mention such, payments ARE made within the tos.

Bill DOES have staff processors for payments and ads, but, all must be approved by him before such is sent. But, if he's away and busy on other business, he still keeps the line of communication open between him and staff on a regular basis - though not as much as when he is not busy.

Again, there are flukes in any system. If there's an influx of requests and some of them are flagged, of course there's the chance that some requests get lost in the process - just like with any major business or government agency. Heck, I've even had my income tax return lost by IRS one year. Can't get a refund if they lose them, can you? Took me over 8 months and a resubmission of my copy before I got that refund.

But, with Bill, all you have to do is ask, politely, if it goes beyond the 30-days between request and receiving payment. But, of course, you best be sure your request is legitimate before you make it.

[ianh]

i am not expecting a full boycott that is not really what this post is about

if there are enough complaints ( which i have a feeling there may be now ) then it should be placed on the watch list giving bill the opportunity to redeem himself

if he is such a wonderful wm he would not have a problem with that

[dcwike]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, watch list? For what?

Very few people have waited beyond the 30 days as per the tos.

And, more than likely, those who ARE waiting, and can honestly say their accounts ARE in good standing, probably have not even made the effort to contact Bill about it. Instead, they may be assuming that Bill's not paying at all.
Typical reaction. After all, it's a PTR, and many programs did fall into the late, then non-pay pattern.

Instead of taking your fingers to griping, why not politely write and inquire? Ex:

Dear Bill,

I understand about the PayPal issue and know you are making efforts to resolve the situation.

I'm sure you are getting many requests, here late, so, I'm thinking my request has gotten lost in the shuffle. Could you please check my status. It's been over 5 weeks since I've sent it in.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely,
so and so, (user name - date of request, such and such.)

[freecashspace]

I wonder if such a polite email will get a polite response, or if you'll have to try to decypher the answer from some of Bill's gibberish in an email to all?
I am NOT an Controller of Your reading preferences, as I am not responsible for what You advertise, as long as it is not a blatant breach of a common Law. You and the Advertiser are responsible for Your actions. Inquisition finished in 15th century, Dictatorship is finishing today, please read the papers:). So, those on their high horses, please step down into the real world. Or is there one Law for 'THEM' and one for us??? Or is there a wart growing on someone else's nose?
----------------------------------------------------------
This is for our English friends and non friends alike. Payment to Your country by cheque? No problem, but, will You pay the cost if that transaction and watch Your money disappear into thin air? Until such time, as a reasonable replacement is found, please keep complaining, or arrange a method of payment that suits You. I do not have a problem issuing payments to You, but would You benefit and show some return for Your hard work?

You have Your own FORUM and Chat to address ANY of Your concerns about this site, so please use it. And NO, I will not answer any questions that the answers are on the site. And if I cannot be in attendance, there are volunteers that will do so on my behalf and with pleasure to help You.

And yes, I do reward those that do their obligations and work to a standard that is set by me, but, I will never ask ANYONE, ever, to do anything. Did Your employer paid You any bonuses for doing nothing? If so, what are You doing in the advertising world? Expecting a miracle or a cooked pidgeon falling on Your plate? Rest of the 'problems':):):) are being addressedCheers,

Wil

[dcwike]

Hmmmmmmmmmm, there's a need to decipher that? The man was merely voicing his opinion and addressing issues. Most other webmasters would be ranting and raving to members for the way they are treating them, or crying the blues over this PP issue. You'll see, eventually, how THEY react when PP does the same thing to them as they did Bill. Must THAT be deciphered, too?

What right does PayPal or any other payment processor have to control what's being advertised in PTR? The ONLY concern PayPal should have is that no Ponzis or MLM's have an account with PayPal. Those ads are NOT being processed through PayPal, and, if they are, then it's the ADVERTISER who should be held responsible, NOT the webmaster of the advertising business.

Don't you see? That's like a bank freezing a grocery store's account because a certain kind of milk is being sold there - or they have advertisers who put ads in their flyers (or websites) that the bank does not approve.

I mean, let's GET REAL HERE!

Let's say YOU don't think a particular program is MLM, but PayPal does. You become an affiliate, using a different payment processor. Therefore, you are not even doing anything wrong against PayPal. You want to increase your downline, so you want to advertise, ok? Do you NOT have that right? Why should PayPal have ANYTHING to do with that?

All I am saying is that as long as an owner of an advertising agency is not, itself, a ponzi, or MLM, then PayPal should NOT have the right to butt into that owner's business - or have the right to freeze their accounts when the is abiding by, and, has always been running a legitimately legal program that is within the tos of PayPal.

Is Bill running a MLM scam?
Is he laundering money?
Is he contributing to Credit Card fraud?
Is he, himself, associated with such? An affiliate of such?

NO!!!!!!!!! All Bill is doing, like ANY PTR, PTP, SURF site is doing is providing both a place to advertise AND a place where people can earn money reading them - which is all legal, as far as laws are concerned.

I look for gptBoycott to be very busy in the future. lol. 'Cause y'all are gonna be doing the same dang thing to those PTR programs as y'all are now doing to Bill. Because of the PP issue, payments will lag, and, members won't make the effort to resolve the situation by working things out with the webmaster, but, rather come here and complain and discuss, or call for a boycott. Or, go to GPF and create more mudd slinging. lol.

[freecashspace]

Some of his comments sounded a lot like ranting and raving to me:
Inquisition finished in 15th century, Dictatorship is finishing today, please read the papers. So, those on their high horses, please step down into the real world. Or is there one Law for 'THEM' and one for us??? Or is there a wart growing on someone else's nose?but hey, whatever, right?

What right to Paypal have to control what's advertised through a PTR? My guess is that they have whatever rights are given to them by whatever laws and regulations they're bound by, and whatever rights agreed to when people sign up for an account with them. After all, nobody's forced to do business with Paypal, are they?

Now don't get me wrong, if Bill thinks he has a case against Paypal based on either their policies or their practices, I think that's great. In fact, I'd be more than happy to donate my BGPayMail earnings (about $3.50 the last time I checked) to help out if he can explain exactly what his case is, preferably without any references to the Inquisition or nose warts.

I don't really think your bank & grocery store analogy works that well. Might work better if it involved a case where a bank chose not to loan money to somebody to open a store that sold illegal products -- human body parts, kiddie porn, weapons-grade plutonium, or whatever.

Also, I think we need to keep in mind that PTRs aren't advertising agencies, although they may provide similar services. Advertising agencies create ads for clients, but in most cases don't also publish those ads. PTRs, in most cases, don't actually create ads (the advertiser does that themselves) but they do publish the ad -- either in an email, or on the PTR website itself. Now explain to me why a PTR shouldn't be responsible for the ads published on their websites? Aren't all website owners generally held responsible for what's on their website?

Of course exceptions are often made for third-party ads. Many webmasters (myself included) have had problems with third-party ads. Sometimes it gets to the point where it's easier to just drop the ad provider because for whatever reasons, they let too much crap get into their inventory rotation. Whether Paypal makes exceptions for these sorts of things, I'm not sure. I've heard it go both ways.

But generally speaking, publishers are held responsible for what they publish. Including the ads! Sure, advertisers should be held responsible as well, but I think saying that ONLY advertisers should be held responsible, and for Bill to say that he's NOT responsible for what gets advertised through his program, it's just CRAZY talk in my opinion.

Do you think Bill might be held responsible if he had a banner on his website for a site that sold kiddie-porn? If he says "YOU and the Advertiser are responsible for Your actions" does that let him off the hook? If you think so, think back to CBS' $500,000 fine for the whole Super Bowl 'wardrobe malfunction' melodrama.

You might be right, dcwike, and Paypal might decide to stop doing business with all PTRs the way Moneybookers has. I can understand why they might come to that decision. If they do, unless another alternative can be found (none of the payment systems I've seen so far are good alternatives for me), I'll probably quit PTR altogether. My guess is a lot of other people will do the same.

Cheers,

Wil

[dcwike]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, but, wil, who's to say there won't be a better payment processing service in the near future? Maybe give PayPal a run for the money?

Print media had it all until radio came about. Radio was making a killing until TV came about. Now, there's the Internet and Payment Processing Services........

[freecashspace]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, but, wil, who's to say there won't be a better payment processing service in the near future? Maybe give PayPal a run for the money?

Print media had it all until radio came about. Radio was making a killing until TV came about. Now, there's the Internet and Payment Processing Services........Interesting way to try to change the focus of the discussion from BGPayMail to online payment systems. Better be careful. Some of the staff here really prefer that discussions stay on-topic. But what the heck, I'm willing to take a chance if you are. ;)

As far as I know, nobody's saying there won't be an online payment system that's better than Paypal. Whether that payment system will be better for the PTR industry and able to give Paypal a run for its money, well....I'm not saying it can't happen, but it sure won't be easy.

I think two issues relevant to this particular discussion are -- (1) the difficulties in achieving economies of scale large enough to keep transaction fees low enough to be reasonable for most PTR members and advertisers; and (2) the potential difficulties associated with letting scammers, scumbags, etc. use their awesome new online payment system.

With regard to the second issue, take a look at E-Gold. They let anybody use their system, and take no responsibility for how people use it. Now personally, I like E-Gold. Always have. The only reason I don't think it's better than Paypal is because it's a hassle to convert it to bankable money. But look at the dramas they've had. Government raids, hackers, etc. That kind of thing makes it hard for them to beat Paypal. On the other hand, Federal Reserve Notes (a.k.a. US Dollars, greenbacks, dead presidents, dough, cash, smackers, etc.) are used in all sorts of illegal/shady/nasty transactions and as far as I know, The Fed (the Federal Reserve System) is never held in any way responsible.

Anyway, good luck to 'em if they think they can pull it off. Giving Paypal a run for its money ain't gonna be easy. A lot have tried and failed. I hear Google may be planning to give it a shot, and I think if they do, it could be real interesting.

Cheers,

Wil

[ianh]

try looking at the bgforum if you think that very few are beyond terms

yes i admit some of these members may not understand the terms but this is not the case in all posts and i can say that unless they have been deleted there is quite a few and lots at the end of march through till the paypal problem

you have long term members saying that members dont have to wait for payouts because they have been paid without request so the members that have claimed are possibly making false claims

this is a very bad situation more so from a new member point of view there are no replies to these posts only a post directing members to a pinned topic about payouts

for a site with so much experience in the ptr world it makes me wonder if there are more problems to come

[zadez]

BgPaymail ... the story : first off the $2.70 perfomance bonus you won`t get it as a normal member doing your clicks and searches and even supporting the ads runned with sign-ups. That talk was in theyer forum.
They kept changing payout restrictions from 3$ to 6$ and back to 3$ for the first payout. My experience : requested payout. ToS said 30 days, i`v waited 30 days. Nothing. After 35 days i`v wroted an email asking about. Nothing. After 45 days wroted a PM to Nikki :
Of course u can`t say: yea we pay them just to look good in forum. But so it seems and is only my personal impresion. Some get paid in 2hours and i`m over the terms (and some over - still reasonable). I said in that nice reminder email - if anyone reads those mails - i wasn`t in a hurry and i can stay in line if the site can`t pay right away for some reasons but i can`t stand and see some get paid just becose they complain about wile i wait. Is unfair.
I got a verry polite reply that they are crowded with payout requests and bla bla bla and i`ll get my money bla bla. Polite but nothing. 62 days after request posted in theyer forum with exact dates and screenshots of request. I got paid next day. :laugh: Is that good?

[ianh]

What happens the next payout

i would say 62 days does not give much confidence in this site

[ianh]

I am adding to this because my personal details were given to other members.

I feel that this is another reason to add this site to the boycott list.

[bluedahlia]

One less headache for me as I unsubbed from the program. Good Luck Bill. You're gonna need it.

ETA - No hard feelings.

[Merlin2307]

QUOTE=dcwike;73880]Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Pity to have to wait so long to be paid, isn't it? And, now, you want to hurry up and boycott a program that DOES pay, even if, but a few accounts out of over 11,000 members get bogged down in the request system, where many, many requests are wrongfully being made because they didn't read the terms?

You want to boycott a program where the webmaster has gone far beyond his duty to make payments to members by check because they didn't have a PP account that accepted credit card payments?

You want to boycott a program where the webmaster paid a member, even AFTER that member quit the program?

Is this webmaster a scam artist?
Is this program unsustainable?
Has he cheated any member or advertiser out of money or ads?
Does this program run a Ponzi, pyramid, or MLM?

You know, out of all the webmasters out there, this is one of the few who absolutely does NOT count on future funds to pay his members - which is the main cause for so many PTR failures.

As long as an account is in good standing, that member will get paid. This program has a proven record of that.

So, here you are, admitting that this webmaster did pay, and even admitted this webmaster DID respond to your requests, and you want to boycott?[/QUOTE]

Now Dcwike,you seem to have your figures a little askew cuz if you look at site states you will see the following:

Total Affiliates: 8,366


Active Affiliates: 3,680


Total Payouts: $ 47,142.40


Mails in queue: 8


Ads in rotation: 47


Paid-To-Clicks: 0

This appears to be the current site stats so that gives 4,686 inactive members over 50% of the membership is either inactive via choice or forced inactivity. If you take the total membership,and according to you its more but lets just take the 8,366 members and divide it into the amount paid out of $47,142.40 and thats only about $5.63 per member. That's not a whole lot of money for a site that's been around for so long. If the PO doesn't need the dollars to pay then why the tos of 30 days or most convenient to me? Ihan and others have already stated here in this thread,the closed thread and on the bgpaymail forum that they are over 30 days. A PO that either had his paypal frozen or closed by his choice or violation of paypal policy(aup)..I believe others when they say AUP cuz haven't seen proof otherwise. What you call PO's sense of humor I call it unethical business practices,ad for a ponzi/pyramid...I saw the ad courtesy of a former member and the program advertised does fit the bill of a ponzi/pyramid scam even if it hasn't been yet convicted in a court of law. So called "representatives" who have attempted to deflect,deter,deceive and out right intimidate others in an attempt to discuss anything other than Bgpaymail is another example of misconduct. Posting of messages from the PO,who appearently finds all of us beneath his dignity to come here and respond to the allegations and complaints,is another example of misconduct. The change in the forum and program tos to include a basic "gag clause" is another example of misconduct. The list could and probably will go on and on,but these problems are MORE than enough to warrant boycott of Bgpaymail. As always JMO...:alien: Merlin

[mcf]

Posting of messages from the PO,who appearently finds all of us beneath his dignity to come here and respond to the allegations and complaints,is another example of misconduct.
He even found it "beneath his dignity" to post in the Xmas thread in his own forum. Something tells me "Bill" is not around anymore and those posting here "for him" are really the ones running this program which has gone so far down hill since Dec/05 it isn't funny.

[freecashspace]

Bill's latest post at the BG Forum:Do You need to Edit Your post(s), please do so,
The EDIT functions are enabled at all times, so please use them.

NO one is invisibly editing anything or anyone.

And yes, BGPayMail know all of those that are reporting or working with PayPal.

And NO SMEAR campaign will be allowed here in this Forum, anyone wishing to start that,
can use the services of GPTBoycott.com, You are Welcome there with open arms.

And yes, this is posted by BillThey seem pretty keen on everybody taking his and Halexzo's word for it when they say nobody's invisibly editing posts there. And yet Bill still allows his Admins to remove the "edited by" line when they edit other members' posts. Between that, the posts and threads they conveniently "disappear", and Bill's "representatives" using multiple forum accounts, I think it's reasonable to assume that they've got something to hide.

Is that a good reason to boycott BGPayMail? Maybe, maybe not. I guess it depends on what they're trying to hide. But that little reminder of Bill's "gag rule" is definitely a reminder that BGPayMail belongs on the Boycott List .

Cheers,

Wil

[pietro]

What I find interesting is the line
And NO SMEAR campaign will be allowed here in this Forum, anyone wishing to start that, can use the services of GPTBoycott.com, You are Welcome there with open arms.

What does he call the entire topic about the GPTB? And the, again I'm sure "accidentally misunderstood", quote from a former and banned member here? For some reason that post is being posted there as if that person were in some way responsible for this forum or that those who are responsible for the forum somehow participated in the actions to which that person referred.

Appearantly the ability to see the very clear and definite distinction between the banned member(s) and the admin of the forum is even more difficult than the difference between SENDING ads and RECEIVING ads.

[halexzo]

Bill's latest post at the BG Forum:They seem pretty keen on everybody taking his and Halexzo's word for it when they say nobody's invisibly editing posts there. And yet Bill still allows his Admins to remove the "edited by" line when they edit other members' posts. Between that, the posts and threads they conveniently "disappear", and Bill's "representatives" using multiple forum accounts, I think it's reasonable to assume that they've got something to hide.

Is that a good reason to boycott BGPayMail? Maybe, maybe not. I guess it depends on what they're trying to hide. But that little reminder of Bill's "gag rule" is definitely a reminder that BGPayMail belongs on the Boycott List .

Cheers,

Wil


Seeing it seems ok to revive an old thread after admin closes the main discussion one, I will post my reply to Wil's insinnuations here.

Those new Members at the BGPM Forum are Members from Boycott trying to disrupt the discussion,and did not started to post there until the thread here was closed by administration.

The banned Members Iam quoting from GPTB were they banned at the time of posting those comments, or were the banned FOR POSTING those comments, if so, then GPTB definetly don't like to be shown where they are wrong.

[trulyfair]

There is also the misconception that the member was banned as a result of that thread from December 2004. Rob's post from the end of the thread was quoted and parts highlighted to show the reason(s) for the "banning"!

YouthInAsia was banned on October 14, 2005 - 10 months later. :laugh:
Link (http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64723&postcount=209)

And......then there's the complaint that this thread was "bumped". Sheeesh at least it wasn't from 2004 like this (http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4811) one that the BGers decided to resurrect. :baaa:

[ianh]

Those new Members at the BGPM Forum are Members from Boycott trying to disrupt the discussion,and did not started to post there until the thread here was closed by administration.





Maybe they are the members that have been or are being paid 2c for being there. By 2 concerned members (wonder who they are).

[freecashspace]

Those new Members at the BGPM Forum are Members from Boycott trying to disrupt the discussion,and did not started to post there until the thread here was closed by administration.Sure they are. And you can prove that, can you? Of course not. As usual.

Maybe they're just some of the 7,897 members who were sent a paid email with a link to that thread. Which is kinda funny, since the stats page says BGPayMail only has 3,687 active members. You invited them to the thread, encouraged them to share their opinions, and then were rude to them, threatened them, and posted lies about them if they didn't say what you wanted them to say. Real nice. So much for all that "decency and respect" stuff you claim is soooooo important at BGPayMail.

Cheers,

Wil

[bellestraker]

Seeing it seems ok to revive an old thread after admin closes the main discussion one, I will post my reply to Wil's insinnuations here.

Those new Members at the BGPM Forum are Members from Boycott trying to disrupt the discussion,and did not started to post there until the thread here was closed by administration.

The banned Members Iam quoting from GPTB were they banned at the time of posting those comments, or were the banned FOR POSTING those comments, if so, then GPTB definetly don't like to be shown where they are wrong.






I am really curious why each time the BGthread starts to die out it is usually you or Donna who will do something to get things rolling again.

Now you have whined that GPTB should close the thread and stop the so called "attack" on BGPM..and so they did.

Then what did you two do....well of course you sent out a paid email to everyone steering them to the bgforum and linking to this one. It doesn't take a lot of smarts to know where it goes from there and exactly what you wanted to happen...did.

The only thing I am NOT absolutely sure of is your motive.

Is it to continue showing/proving your undying devotion to Bill and thus continue to sit in the favored seat.

OR is it a simple case of wanting to see your name in lights? I am not sure but either one is pathetic.I can understand defending a site you believe in but this goes far deeper than the personal opinion of a ptr site.

You obviously expected a large crowd to run over to bg and make all the normal posts of how much they love Bill and how they will be with him until he kicks them to the curb etc. etc. but it appears the more fanatical type members are leaving and many of the rest are just regular people who care about the site in a normal.." I enjoy BGPM" type of way.

You( general) bring up issues which are flat out wrong... for example..."This is about a payment which was late due to problems with pp. It has been shown many times that all this preceded any problem with pp by a fair amount of time but ...hey dont let a few facts stop you.

Pfft

Belle

[bellestraker]

Double post

[edskers]

This is just a joke ..... Has to be right?? Bgpaidmails on a watch list?? You have got to be kidding???

Lets see ,, lets go back in time.. Anyone remember AllUSubmitters?? Over a Year old in payouts ,, not banned (well for more than a day )??? Aprils gold ,, 6-9 months behind ,, not banned ? Echosmails 6+ not banned ?? I could go on and on ,,, I mean how long did it take to get AprilsGold banned??

And here u have a few complaints by members that had to wait 60 days in 3+ years and they are on a watch list , with sites that are oviously scam sites.. This is pathetic..

There has been times in the last 3 years ,where payouts were slower , beyond terms , but Bill did inform us of these delays.. One due to paypal and another was due to time issues ( I Believe)... He does do other things in his life ,, than just his site..

Now being as GENEROUS as Bill is.. He gets lots of false redemptions.. I couldnt even imagine how many daily.. Makes me cringe to even think.. As I run 3 sites myself.. And combined dont have near as many members , I can tell you , going 24 hours inbetween visits , I could have 50+ emails just at one site a day and I am on most days.. And that is just a site with 1k in members..

Now new members ( or unknown members ) ,, would have to wait longer.. Because he has to manually go through the accounts to make sure they didn't break terms ,, so even if u are a week behind , you can see how you could get behind in a hurry.. Now people like me , who have been with the site 3+ years , he knows who we are , and doesnt have to check our accounts , so he could pay us faster..

Bill is only one person.. Who has alot on his plate and not just paid to read.. Never claimed to be perfect and is generous to a fault.. And to be treated in this fashion , is just heart breaking..

I believe in boycotting sites or even keeping an eye on sites , that are in trouble or ovious scams ,, but can we not just take a few cases and make a huge production out of it..

I do understand peoples frustration having to wait for a payout.. And I know , that if I have to wait , I leave the site after they pay.. I wouldn't consider them a scam.. Or even a site to watch , I would just think well , they are not a site for me.. And if people would ask me , I would say yes they pay but they are slower than others..

I guess a scam site to me is , one that either has no intention of paying, or has intention , but it is not possible to come up with the funds to pay , say like ohhh I dont know clicking 50 cents per email.. They may have the intention of it , but find out ,, ohh not going to work.. Or sites that are unstainable..

But I guess , our definition's are different.. 30-60 day waiting on payouts , does not make a site a scam or one to watch in my book.. Just means they are a slower paying site.. Paying being the opertative word..

I hope u rethink your stand on this issue.. It's a sad time when Sites Like this get put on a watch list , but just my opinion I could be wrong..

tammy

[bellestraker]

Again we have a defense of BGPAYMAIL where the main point is his GENEROSITY ( again capitalized).

BGPAYMAIL is a ptr site so I do not understand why his GENEROSITY to a select group has anything to do with it.

Am I a good member because I buy my friends lavish gifts or pay their bills. I think not.THAT would maybe make me a good friend but would have nothing to do with whether I was a good employee or a good person.

Yet that seems to be what most of the members who refuse to see that there may be a problem at BG use to explain how good this SITE is. It is his "generosity" to a few which makes them think everyone else should be happy.

The financial assistance Bill gives to a few should not even come into play but it is brought up at every opportunity. WHY??? What does it have to do with BGPM "The ptr site".
IMO It is a personal thing and not part of BGPM.

Belle

ETA
Tammy. Are you saying that you think it is right for a PO to continually pay a small group out of turn because he "knows them"?

[sophieca]

Hi,

I do believe people having had good experiences can share that just as much as the ones having had bad experiences, I personally always like to hear different sides and opinions ...

I never was a member of that site but this Bill really must be something to be able to provoke such opposite heated passions.

Sophie

[bellestraker]

Hi,

I do believe people having had good experiences can share that just as much as the ones having had bad experiences, I personally always like to hear different sides and opinions ...

I never was a member of that site but this Bill really must be something to be able to provoke such opposite heated passions.

Sophie


In that case Sophie if the PO of xyz site pays my "personal" bills and gives me large amounts of money I should be able to use that to promote the site by continually posting of that Po's GENEROSITY thus giving the impression that this is a part of being a member of xyz site.

I am sorry but I think that is wrong.One has nothing to do with the other.

It has also been suggested ( not by you) that it is jealousy that makes others think this is offensive.

A lot of ptr members are on a very low income and to have a small group act like this is a part of membership in a ptr site is wrong IMNSHO.:)

Why is his GENEROSITY to a few always a CAPITAL issue in pro BG posts?...If I am a loyal member at BG will I get my bills paid for a year ( without any personal contact..I think not and in any case..if I did it would still not be a issue in BGPM ( a ptr site).

Sorry Sophie I am wandering here and am not asking you to answer these questions...
as usual..they are just my thoughts.

Belle

ETA
I agree that all members should be able to share their experiences whether they are good or bad. But I also think they should have SOMETHING to do with what ANY member can reasonably expect from the site and not include personal gifts.

[sophieca]

Hi

Belle, I read edskers post twice again and nowhere did I see her mentioning him paying any bills.

I read it as an outsider having never even been to the site or the forum there (well, not that I can recall anyway), when I read that the PO is generous, it generally means to me that he organises contests, offers Banner Impressions, help the members or things like that, I didn't see any mention of Bills being paid in the post and am not enough in the entire hoopla to directly interpretate 'generosity' in any other way than I normally do when a member talks about a PO.

Just my thoughts too ;)

[bellestraker]

I agree with you that just reading this one post of Tammys I would be of the same opinion but.....
I guess I read things a bit differently because I have followed the BG threads both here and at bgforum and have seen Bills "generosity" explained numerous times in every way EXCEPT as a contest giving PO.....or really as any part of being a PO.

All mention of this has included personal issues ( or all that I have read).

I have a bad habit of quoting one person and responding generally which is unfair to those I reply to ( In this case Tammy).

Belle

[edskers]

Belle , I did not make GENEROSITY my main point... I believe I used it once among alot of other words and points..

And his GENEROSITY , is not to just a small group , anyone can be on the other end of it.. Its not targetted to just a few.. And I havent received any bonus's , in I can't say how long at least to my knowledge , only cause I just don't have the time I wish to join in like I used to or want to.. Why shouldn't members that put some extra time in a site be rewarded?? I have forum contests weekly and members who play are rewarded and those that don't aren't??? So should I be generous to all , even if they don't play?? Doesn't make members any less a part of things if they do or don't , I still love them , but they don't make as much as others......

But that is besides the point.. That isn't even my issue .. My beef is , how such a small group or percentage ,, can bring down a site that the MAJORITY of the members are content or happy.. Not to say , they don't have freedom to complain or even to have their opinions ,same as I have mine.. But to put a site on a Watch list , BEFORE contacting a owner to get THEIR SIDE,, or to go by a few people's statements, I think is unjust..

Shouldn't a site be judged by it's history ,, by majority of membership.. ?? I mean if this is how things are , anyone can claim this or that and get ANY site on a watch list??

As for ure question.. You know ,, I don't think my opinion matters in this.. Bill runs his site the way he runs it.. Bill knows my opinions on some of the things I disagree with ,, but in the end it's up to him how he runs the site.. And to be honest , I don't know for a fact he does pay others before others ,, I gather that is the case but I am not 100% certain on that , because I only had to reguest once in the 3 years I have been a member.. And I believe I said HE COULD.. Didn't say he did , had to double check my post to make sure..

Personal note.. On the whole I love the way Bill has ran the site over the years.. A few things I have disagreed with ,, but noone can be 100% happy with any site, if u look hard enough or if u have been a member long enough..

Belle , I know you and I will never agree on this , you and I have gone rounds before on BG.. But if you think of all the topics we have discussed this in ,it was just 1 or 2 people complaining ,, which in their defense ,if what they were saying was true and they didnt break terms and had to wait 30+,, had every right to complain ,,, and this is alot of how do u do ,, with just a few with problems..

But again ,, just my opinion.. And hope that Gpt boycott rethinks its stand on this site..

tammy

[edskers]

Ahhhh ,, okay ,,, I see , I am sorry ,, I guess I wasn't even thinking of those cases ,, or speaking of that ,i was just thinking of the little bonus's any member can receive..

As for ,, umm ,, the larger amount bonus's , I believe alot of times , he offers to whole membership as well ..But they are not to my knowledge anyhow ,, done alot ,,, mostly around XMAS time.. Now what he gives some ,, that isnt offered to whole membership , I cannot comment on.. I know nothing about those examples..

tammy


I agree with you that just reading this one post of Tammys I would be of the same opinion but.....
I guess I read things a bit differently because I have followed the BG threads both here and at bgforum and have seen Bills "generosity" explained numerous times in every way EXCEPT as a contest giving PO.....or really as any part of being a PO.

All mention of this has included personal issues ( or all that I have read).

I have a bad habit of quoting one person and responding generally which is unfair to those I reply to ( In this case Tammy).

Belle

[trulyfair]

Here's an example of Bill's "generosity":

And yes,Bill does reward some Members, and yes, Iam one of them, but it was
not for any Searches I may have done or of any Purchases as you may think.

What was my Reward? I was given a 1 Year paid, all monthly expenses that
I have.
Bolded by me.

Link (http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showpost.php?p=78102&postcount=518)

[bellestraker]

Ahhhh ,, okay ,,, I see , I am sorry ,, I guess I wasn't even thinking of those cases ,, or speaking of that ,i was just thinking of the little bonus's any member can receive..

As for ,, umm ,, the larger amount bonus's , I believe alot of times , he offers to whole membership as well ..But they are not to my knowledge anyhow ,, done alot ,,, mostly around XMAS time.. Now what he gives some ,, that isnt offered to whole membership , I cannot comment on.. I know nothing about those examples..

tammy


I apologize Tammy because as I said...I have a habit of replying with the history of both forums in mind and that leads to confusion when it is brought into a "quoted" reply.

Regarding the part I bolded where you say you cannot respond. IMO THAT should be the response from anyone regarding personal things done by Bill for specific members but it isnt.

I am not sure you have read the same posts as I at bg but many of them are extreme and the personal things are often used to promote BG.

As far as BG on the boycott list. I honestly have not reached a decision on that and the reason I would hesitate is because some of the issues I have are a reaction to certain posters and their self promotion etc. which is not a reason to boycott BG.

I also agree that people should be able to voice their complaints but if they do and are met with these fairy tale replies making Bill into some kind of super Godlike person who everyone loves....and the person with the complaint is obviously one of "those" members who MUST not be following tos and doing what they are supposed to be doing etc.

ahh..Its not even 7 am here...what am I doing in a BG thread.:) I need a coffee.

Belle

ETA
I said I had not reached a decision and want to add that I had put in a complaint ( just so there is no misunderstanding)

[bellestraker]

Here's an example of Bill's generosity:


Bolded by me.

Link (http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showpost.php?p=78102&postcount=518)


I am quite sure this was not offered to the membership and if it was a one time mention it would not bother me so much....however this type of comment is brought up quite often by a few members how they have received financial "help" for various problems and that is fine...BUT it has nothing to do with ptr.

Belle

[trulyfair]

Exactly, it has nothing to do with PTR. But IMO it has everything to do with halexzo's defence of BGPM and the crusade she has started at BG forum against GPTBoycott.

[trulyfair]

But that is besides the point.. That isn't even my issue .. My beef is , how such a small group or percentage ,, can bring down a site that the MAJORITY of the members are content or happy.. Not to say , they don't have freedom to complain or even to have their opinions ,same as I have mine.. But to put a site on a Watch list , BEFORE contacting a owner to get THEIR SIDE,, or to go by a few people's statements, I think is unjust..

IF the majority of members are content or happy, then why would the site being on the Watch List be of concern? :\

AFAIK sites have been put on the Watch List without the owner being contacted for the past 4 or 5 years. Why is this suddenly an issue?


Shouldn't a site be judged by it's history ,, by majority of membership.. ?? I mean if this is how things are , anyone can claim this or that and get ANY site on a watch list??
How many times have members been persuaded to stay with a program simply because it had been a paying program in the past? Wouldn't AYS and April Gold's be two good examples? I think many of us may have seen Cheri (freebiesite) constantly boast about the total payments she had made to members, yet where is BeeHiveMail now? Seems it isn't always good to judge programs by their history.


But again ,, just my opinion.. And hope that Gpt boycott rethinks its stand on this site..

In that case, GPTB would be going against what it stands for and that is, I believe, to represent PTR members. Members submit complaints and those complaints are the reason programs are added to the Watch and Boycott Lists.

[ianh]

But again ,, just my opinion.. And hope that Gpt boycott rethinks its stand on this site..

tammy



I do to being that halexzo totally denied having any of my info and then admitted that she had made the payment to me.

Also dcwike was given details from my account which were posted in the other thread.

Yes, they are probably right that this could have been solved quite easily all it would have taken would taken was for bill to pay within terms and then there probably would have been no complaint.

Not only that but my details were given out to another member without my consent, it is totally unacceptable that a po with bill's experience should do something like this especially being the he claims to hold your details with the upmost respect for your privacy.



Let me ask you Tammy, would you as a PO, consider giving details of 1 member to another member without first having gained consent to do so ?

[Merlin2307]

Originally Posted by edskers
But that is besides the point.. That isn't even my issue .. My beef is , how such a small group or percentage ,, can bring down a site that the MAJORITY of the members are content or happy.. Not to say , they don't have freedom to complain or even to have their opinions ,same as I have mine.. But to put a site on a Watch list , BEFORE contacting a owner to get THEIR SIDE,, or to go by a few people's statements, I think is unjust..

Edskers,if you read the closed thread here,you will find that emails were sent to Bill shortly after the closed thread started inviting him to join the discussion of concerns/allegations by what you say are a few,a MINORITY,attempting to do harm to what you call a good program. Personally,I find it a minority who are attempting to defend by deflection,deception,diversion and cohersion to derail the discussion in the closed thread a concern and I personally,hope that GPTboycott does NOT change its mind on the watch list and boycott is successful. As always JMO:alien: Merlin

[dcwike]

I want it to be noted here that all the posts that appear to be stated by me(prior to this date) in this thread have NOT been stated by me in THIS thread.

They are exact replicas of what I stated in the thread in the "General Program Discussion":

http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showthread.php?p=80372#post80372

I have NOT posted in this thread at all until today.

Had the people who dragged my posts over here used the quote feature I would have said nothing - as that would have been appropriate. But, my posts were placed here without my knowledge and without using the quote feature, and I find that as underhanded means to appear as if I, myself, have posted here just soon after Ianh started this thread.

I did NOT post HERE at all until today.

All I can say is this goes to show how desperately SOMEONE wants a program to be boycotted, and how they will use inappropriate tactics to do so.

It ALSO goes to show how slack the moderation is in this forum, and, brings to point the true purpose of gptBoycott.

Without proper moderation to keep the threads at bay how can they gptBoycott maintain their purpose?

Granted, moderators have a life outside this forum, and they do not get paid. However, being that that's the case, why hasn't admin increased the number of moderators to KEEP the purpose of this forum in the perspective that it was created? Which was to discuss PTR matters in an appropriate manner so that the credibility of gptBoycott remains as a leader of HONESLY boycotting programs that are truly scam and do not pay their members.

The founder of this forum has left, and left the control of the forum in the hands of Rob, who seems to have disappeared, too, because HE is too busy. Rob has left the forum authority in the hands of two other moderators, whom also seem to be too busy to keep up with the forum.

Folks, gptBoycott has started out with a very good cause for those who are involved in the realm of gpt. And, I admired their stance, their ability to separate the wheat from the shaft, as far as determining the credibility of complaints and posts. However, as it now, I feel this forum is a MOCKERY of it's own purpose, and has fallen into the same mud slinging pits as gptForum.

And, it has allowed its forum to be controlled by people so desperate to get a program boycotted that they have the audacity to just move people's original posts from one thread to another!

Once again, my posts in this thread are EXACT replicas of my posts in a thread that has been closed. I have NOT the authority to do that, nor would I do it even if I knew HOW to do it.

I think it's despicable that this is being done, and, even more disgusting that moderators don't care enough about the PURPOSE of this forum to even take a few minutes a day and stay on top of the smut and mudslinging that has dragged this forum to the level of mere entertainment, rather than for a just cause.

I don't come here to be entertained, or to see words twisted in an inappropriate manner. I come here to discuss PTR programs of which I am involved, and to read and understand different views.

Some I have defended to the hilt, and realized, in the end, that I've been wrong. But, BGPayMail is NOT one of them.

The other programs have flat out stopped paying HUNDREDS of people. Others have completely disappeared because of payment processing issues.

BGPayMail is back on track and has caught up on paying its members. And, the PO has even took a stance against the unjust treatment by a payment processor that, by descretion, can freeze, suspend, hold ANY PTR program accounts.

BGPayMail even SUPPORTED gptBoycott for what it stood for because they held his respect.

Yes, Ianh had a legitimate complaint in the beginning. And, even despite the fact that he did not go through the proper channels of dispute within the program, he was PAID. He even came in here and ADMITTED being paid.

Yet, the crusaders against click fraud, and those against advertising that violates the irrational PP AUP (not even listed as reasons to boycott), used this forum to hijack and derail the issues to boycott.

And, the moderators allowed it to go unmonitored.

[trulyfair]

I want it to be noted here that all the posts that appear to be stated by me(prior to this date) in this thread have NOT been stated by me in THIS thread.

They are exact replicas of what I stated in the thread in the "General Program Discussion":

http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showthread.php?p=80372#post80372

I have NOT posted in this thread at all until today.

Had the people who dragged my posts over here used the quote feature I would have said nothing - as that would have been appropriate. But, my posts were placed here without my knowledge and without using the quote feature, and I find that as underhanded means to appear as if I, myself, have posted here just soon after Ianh started this thread.

I did NOT post HERE at all until today.

If you have not posted in this thread until today, WHO made posts #3, #6, #8,#10 and #12? :\

[Merlin2307]

Dcwick,You say you haven't posted in this thread until now,where is your proof? Are we suppost to take you at your word? Even so,have you PM'd any of the mods who do sometimes visit and filed a complaint or even attempted to edit/delete the posts yourself? The subject of the thread is suggest a program to boycott and the topic is Bgpaymail. Please remain on topic.JMO as always:alien: Merlin

[dcwike]

If you have not posted in this thread until today, WHO made posts #3, #6, #8,#10 and #12? :\

You tell ME, trulyfair. I don't know.

If I have ANYTHING to say in ANY thread, they are ORIGINAL posts. Such is not the case here. Here, post numbers 3, 6, 8, and 12 are DUPLICATES of posts I made in the thread that was closed.

I'm not a geek, and, from what I understand, only admin has control to do that. I'm not saying admin DID this, however.

I AM saying that admin is so "busy" with their own lives that they can't even keep up with their concern for what this forum really stands for.

What these "geeks" have done not only discredits the moderators and admin this Forum, but, also discredits anything ANYONE posts!

And, yes, this matter HAS been reported to admin.

[ianh]

So dcwike you admit that I had a legitimate complaint, finally.


I did go through the proper channels on the first request, firstly I used the contact button on site, to which I had no reply, I then used the nothappy@bgpaymail address to which I then got a reply (another thing that I have never denied),and an apology, also if my memory serves me correct I also asked about this in the forum, again if my memory serves me right I was told to check everything was correct with my account and to use the nothappy address, which I did.

Then low and behold my second payout is due, and guess what, I have the same problem !

To the best of my knowledge, as stated before, I did understand and follow the rules for a claim.

I really find it hard to go begging for my money twice, once is bad enough.


So we now know that I did have a legitimate complaint, so why has bill seen it in his best interest to give me more reasons to have more legitmate complaints, what did he think that I would just roll over and take it ?

Maybe he did not need to worry because members like yourself and halexzo will protect him come what may and anyway who would believe me after all I was just one lowly member and all the other complaints had been quelled, derailed and overwhelmed.

Another thing we know, bill has tried, you have tried and halexzo has tried but I am still here and I now feel that there are more than enough reasons that this site deserves a full boycott.

Please note that these are just my complaints

1 : bill payed late
2 : bill payed late for the second time
3 : bill refuses to use paypal but still manages to make payments through paypal
4 : bill gives members info to other members
5 : bill gives even more info to even more members
6 : bill does not pay all his debts ( I am still owed the interest for a late payment)
7 : bill deletes or suspends members that complain
8 : bill sends what appears to be abusive mails to his member base if things don't go the way he likes


The only reason bill now does not cooperate with GPTB is that he does not like being caught, had BG not have appeared on the watch list then he would probably still been advertising GPTB in stead of stamping his feet.


Personally I think I would rather be a member of GPTB than bgpaymail, at least GPTB address things and try to sort out members concerns (slow as it may be at times) rather than just sweeping them under the carpet, like bill and bgpaymail.

[AloraLyric]

I'm going to allow this thread to continue, as long as it doesn't turn out to be a duplicate of the other. By the way, I do plan on re-opening the other thread when I get time to go through the last few pages.

I'd like to remind everyone of our backseat modding rule, though. The forum rules can be found here: http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3246
If you feel someone is violating the rules, including going off-topic, report them to a moderator privately.

I have NOT posted in this thread at all until today.

Here, post numbers 3, 6, 8, and 12 are DUPLICATES of posts I made in the thread that was closed.

I'm not a geek, and, from what I understand, only admin has control to do that. I'm not saying admin DID this, however.
We have no reason to copy your posts over to this thread. It's your IP attached to the posts in this thread. Unless it's some kind of weird forum glitch, you must have been the one who posted. :\

The founder of this forum has left, and left the control of the forum in the hands of Rob, who seems to have disappeared, too, because HE is too busy. Rob has left the forum authority in the hands of two other moderators, whom also seem to be too busy to keep up with the forum.
There were two founders of this forum - Rob and Keith. Keith left and Ron (DazHiredGun) became a co-owner. Just FYI :)

Yet, the crusaders against click fraud, and those against advertising that violates the irrational PP AUP (not even listed as reasons to boycott), used this forum to hijack and derail the issues to boycott.
If someone wishes to discuss click fraud or PP violations in relation to BGPayMail, they are allowed to do so. That does not derail a thread titled "BGPayMail".


And, the moderators allowed it to go unmonitored.
You've made quite a number of comments like this. If you have a problem with me or the way I moderate, that's fine. It'd be nice, though, if you stopped bringing it up like this. PM me - complain to Rob - open a new thread - whatever... but stop trying to derail discussions about BGPayMail with it!

[Taff]

Just one thing I would like to have explained to me as well before this goes any futher

I want it to be noted here that all the posts that appear to be stated by me(prior to this date) in this thread have NOT been stated by me in THIS thread.

They are exact replicas of what I stated in the thread in the "General Program Discussion":

http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showthread.php?p=80372#post80372

I have NOT posted in this thread at all until today.

Had the people who dragged my posts over here used the quote feature I would have said nothing - as that would have been appropriate. But, my posts were placed here without my knowledge and without using the quote feature, and I find that as underhanded means to appear as if I, myself, have posted here just soon after Ianh started this thread.

I did NOT post HERE at all until today.

All I can say is this goes to show how desperately SOMEONE wants a program to be boycotted, and how they will use inappropriate tactics to do so.

It ALSO goes to show how slack the moderation is in this forum, and, brings to point the true purpose of gptBoycott.

Without proper moderation to keep the threads at bay how can they gptBoycott maintain their purpose?

Granted, moderators have a life outside this forum, and they do not get paid. However, being that that's the case, why hasn't admin increased the number of moderators to KEEP the purpose of this forum in the perspective that it was created? Which was to discuss PTR matters in an appropriate manner so that the credibility of gptBoycott remains as a leader of HONESLY boycotting programs that are truly scam and do not pay their members.

The founder of this forum has left, and left the control of the forum in the hands of Rob, who seems to have disappeared, too, because HE is too busy. Rob has left the forum authority in the hands of two other moderators, whom also seem to be too busy to keep up with the forum.

Folks, gptBoycott has started out with a very good cause for those who are involved in the realm of gpt. And, I admired their stance, their ability to separate the wheat from the shaft, as far as determining the credibility of complaints and posts. However, as it now, I feel this forum is a MOCKERY of it's own purpose, and has fallen into the same mud slinging pits as gptForum.

And, it has allowed its forum to be controlled by people so desperate to get a program boycotted that they have the audacity to just move people's original posts from one thread to another!

Once again, my posts in this thread are EXACT replicas of my posts in a thread that has been closed. I have NOT the authority to do that, nor would I do it even if I knew HOW to do it.

I think it's despicable that this is being done, and, even more disgusting that moderators don't care enough about the PURPOSE of this forum to even take a few minutes a day and stay on top of the smut and mudslinging that has dragged this forum to the level of mere entertainment, rather than for a just cause.

I don't come here to be entertained, or to see words twisted in an inappropriate manner. I come here to discuss PTR programs of which I am involved, and to read and understand different views.

Some I have defended to the hilt, and realized, in the end, that I've been wrong. But, BGPayMail is NOT one of them.

The other programs have flat out stopped paying HUNDREDS of people. Others have completely disappeared because of payment processing issues.

BGPayMail is back on track and has caught up on paying its members. And, the PO has even took a stance against the unjust treatment by a payment processor that, by descretion, can freeze, suspend, hold ANY PTR program accounts.

BGPayMail even SUPPORTED gptBoycott for what it stood for because they held his respect.

Yes, Ianh had a legitimate complaint in the beginning. And, even despite the fact that he did not go through the proper channels of dispute within the program, he was PAID. He even came in here and ADMITTED being paid.

Yet, the crusaders against click fraud, and those against advertising that violates the irrational PP AUP (not even listed as reasons to boycott), used this forum to hijack and derail the issues to boycott.

And, the moderators allowed it to go unmonitored.



Please could you point out the duplicate posts here and in the closed thread
Please explain these posts in this thread

06-06-2006, 14:55 where you replied to ianh "Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Pity to have to wait so long to be paid

06-07-2006, 01:01 where you replied mrskitty "More than likely, you won't have to request payment."

06-07-2006, 20:50 where you replied to ianh about "watch list"

06-07-2006, 22:45 where you replied to freecashspace "Hmmmmmmmmmm, there's a need to decipher that?"

06-09-2006, 04:01 where you replied to freecashspace "better payment processing service in the near future?"

[bellestraker]

Just one thing I would like to have explained to me as well before this goes any futher





Please could you point out the duplicate posts here and in the closed thread
Please explain these posts in this thread

06-06-2006, 14:55 where you replied to ianh "Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Pity to have to wait so long to be paid

06-07-2006, 01:01 where you replied mrskitty "More than likely, you won't have to request payment."

06-07-2006, 20:50 where you replied to ianh about "watch list"

06-07-2006, 22:45 where you replied to freecashspace "Hmmmmmmmmmm, there's a need to decipher that?"

06-09-2006, 04:01 where you replied to freecashspace "better payment processing service in the near future?"


I can not recall ANY thread about BGPM where Donna (dcwike) has not been a major participant and yet suddenly she decides that posts made in June of last year are stolen quotes from another thread. It wasnt noticed until now??

I would also like to see those posts in the other thread and as they are made with Donna's IP...well...yeah OK.

IMO It appears to be scraping the bottom of the barrel on a witchhunt to deflect from BG by making a claim against GPTB ( very cautiously worded )

Can this whole thing get any crazier.

Belle


ETA

I haven't made it to BGForum yet but i have no doubt it will be accepted there without question...just as everything else has.
PFFT

[trulyfair]

You tell ME, trulyfair. I don't know.

If I have ANYTHING to say in ANY thread, they are ORIGINAL posts. Such is not the case here. Here, post numbers 3, 6, 8, and 12 are DUPLICATES of posts I made in the thread that was closed.

I'm not a geek, and, from what I understand, only admin has control to do that. I'm not saying admin DID this, however.

I AM saying that admin is so "busy" with their own lives that they can't even keep up with their concern for what this forum really stands for.

What these "geeks" have done not only discredits the moderators and admin this Forum, but, also discredits anything ANYONE posts!

And, yes, this matter HAS been reported to admin.

Well IF the posts are duplicates of those posted in another BGPM thread, you should have no problem providing the links to the original posts, should you? :)

[ianh]

Well IF the posts are duplicates of those posted in another BGPM thread, you should have no problem providing the links to the original posts, should you? :)



Maybe its one of the tactics that have worked so well in the past for the bg super supporters

[Merlin2307]

Well IF the posts are duplicates of those posted in another BGPM thread, you should have no problem providing the links to the original posts, should you? :)

Yes,I agree that there should NOT be a problem in providing links to these duplicate posts or should we all just say BUSTED!! yet again. JMO as always:alien: Merlin

[dcwike]

I DID report this matter to admin through a PM, before I made my post, but, as you can see, nothing was done about it until afterwards. Hmmmmmmmmm.

At any rate, to stay on topic, keep in mind that Ianh's statements are PAST TENSE, and, have, since then been rectified.

What Bill DOES for his members and HOW he conducts his program has nothing to do with just cause for boycotting. What he advertises is NOT an issue for boycotting. It is an issue to be dealt with between Bill and PayPal.

The program pays.
It's sustainable.
Communication is open in many areas for anyone to voice their questions, disputes, or any purpose. And, if Bill is not available to asnwer, he appoints such duties to his staff.
It has a forum that, unlike this one turned out to be, where the rules of conduct are strictly enforced by moderators who keep up with their responsibilities.

And, as far as the conduct of the PO? Show me WHERE he has personally belittled ANY member of his program by name. What one perceives from that that is written, can be associated by personal perception of their own actions.

If no names are mentioned, but, a person perceives it is a message to them, personally, then, it is by their own perception they assume something has been written about them.

And, if one voices such perception in public, then it is known to all that they, themselves, feel guilty, and accuse the writer of bashing them.

Bill bashes no person's integrity. He may vent his opinions on the actions that he sees taken, but, in general, he does NOT personally accuse anyone. The only exception I see is the one where he says a "nincompoop" employee of PayPal has deemed his program as an MLM. And, with only ONE level of referrals, I think such statement is acceptable. I thought the statement was a witty way to show just how far fetched PayPal can be when it comes to freezing, or holding PTR accounts.

Just as WE have the freedom to voice our opinions in forums, so does a PO have the right to voice his or her opinion and to dictate thereof, within his or her own realm.

It took over 8 months and, nearly 1000 posts to get even 5 complaints for the watch list. And, yet, the program still pays, and still has many supporting members, be they quietly support, or publically do so.

To me, that has more merit than the few complaints posted, or accepted by this admin.

And, I repeat, I DID NOT bring my original posts from a once closed thread to here. So, if admin didn't do it, and I didn't do it, then, by deduction, it could be as you say, AloraLyric, a glitch. Either that or someone is messing with both your control panel and my PC - which has been responding to my commands in an unusually strange way, lately.

[bluedahlia]

Donna, can you please provide specific links to the other thread showing these duplicate posts, or even the numbers allocated to each post. Thanks.

[freecashspace]

BGPayMail is back on track and has caught up on paying its members. And, the PO has even took a stance against the unjust treatment by a payment processor that, by descretion, can freeze, suspend, hold ANY PTR program accounts.
Bill isn't back on track and paying all his members. If he decides he doesn't like them for some reason, he suspends their accounts and "confiscates" their earnings. With nearly 4700 members moved to "inactive" status in the last month, you've got to wonder how many of them have gone inactive voluntarily and how many of them have been suspended. That could add up to a lot of confiscated earnings. Maybe Bill pockets the money, maybe he uses it for bonuses to the ever-dwindling number of active members. But either way, he's not paying all his members.

Bill and his "representatives" justify the suspension of these members and the confiscation of these members' earnings on the basis that the Terms of Service say Bill can suspend or delete members whose actions he deems "inappropriate." Every member who joins BGPayMail agrees to these Terms, so they know their earnings are always at risk, and that they could lose those earnings for any reason Bill can think of. Or even for no reason at all.

And yet many of those same people who say that it's Bill's program and he makes the rules and he should be allowed to run it any way he wants to and nobody has the right to tell him or any other PO what to do or how to do it, turn around and say that Paypal's rules are unjust. Even though Bill agreed to them when he signed up with Paypal. Why is it OK for Bill to do whatever he wants, but not Paypal? Why are BGPayMail members expected to accept whatever decisions Bill makes -- even when that means Bill is going to take their money -- but Bill and his representatives expected to accept Paypal's decisions?

I can understand why some people think BGPayMail doesn't belong on the Boycott List. After all, it is still paying at least some of its members. But is it impossible to understand that, to some people at least, making payments isn't everything? To those people, there are other reasons why they might submit a complaint about a program. Ianh has listed a number of complaints about BGPayMail. I think they're all good reasons why BGPayMail should be added to the Boycott List.

Sometimes there are other issues besides whether the program pays.

Cheers,

Wil

[Merlin2307]

I think I have heard it all now cuz I just got back from visiting the Bgpaymail forum. I found where DC had made same statement there as here about the post being duplicates. Still no proof or links showing proof in either forum. I did notice in the I been paid feed that alot of the same people are continuously commenting about being paid again and again. Our own DCwike states been paid 34 times,another states 6 times,another 3 times and on and on.......sure would explain why all the inactives. As to the duplicate posts till I see links showing the duplicates,it's Busted to me. As always JMO :alien: Merlin

[ianh]

At any rate, to stay on topic, keep in mind that Ianh's statements are PAST TENSE, and, have, since then been rectified.




They have, have they ?


with rectifying one he created, what ? 4 more grounds for complaint, real smart don't you think ?


Do I have to list again ? seems like it !


Sharing my info with halexzo
sharing my info with dcwike
failing to pay monies owed (late payment interest)


And this is without the paying through paypal who bill claims he will have nothing to do with. Yes they are a payment processor, but then so is a bank for all intensive purposes and a bank will close your account if anything fraudulant is done with that account. Maybe in dcwike's opinion a bank should not be allowed to do that either.

[Taff]

I DID report this matter to admin through a PM, before I made my post, but, as you can see, nothing was done about it until afterwards. Hmmmmmmmmm.

I have spent the last hour going though your posts in the closed thread

Lets get this sorted I asked you to explain the posts you made in this
thread giving the date of each post and the replies you made to the
person who posted before you. The posts were made by you in this
thread ( NOT IN ANY OTHER ),, There has been no glytch but maybe
you are getting a little confused. I would advise you to go back to the
start of this thread and read it again.

[ianh]

I think I have heard it all now cuz I just got back from visiting the Bgpaymail forum. I found where DC had made same statement there as here about the post being duplicates. Still no proof or links showing proof in either forum. I did notice in the I been paid feed that alot of the same people are continuously commenting about being paid again and again. Our own DCwike states been paid 34 times,another states 6 times,another 3 times and on and on.......sure would explain why all the inactives. As to the duplicate posts till I see links showing the duplicates,it's Busted to me. As always JMO :alien: Merlin


Don't forget even that is incentivised ! what was it now ? Ahhhh 7.897

[trulyfair]

I DID report this matter to admin through a PM, before I made my post, but, as you can see, nothing was done about it until afterwards. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Yet it took you 8 months to discover the "discrepancy"? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

At any rate, to stay on topic, keep in mind that Ianh's statements are PAST TENSE, and, have, since then been rectified.
Even if payments are now being made within terms, that does not make prior complaints invalid.

What Bill DOES for his members and HOW he conducts his program has nothing to do with just cause for boycotting. What he advertises is NOT an issue for boycotting. It is an issue to be dealt with between Bill and PayPal.
As I have pointed out on several ocassions, some people do care about the type of advertising a program offers.

It has a forum that, unlike this one turned out to be, where the rules of conduct are strictly enforced by moderators who keep up with their responsibilities.
If one doesn't like the way this forum is being operated, one is free to delete one's membership.


And, I repeat, I DID NOT bring my original posts from a once closed thread to here. So, if admin didn't do it, and I didn't do it, then, by deduction, it could be as you say, AloraLyric, a glitch. Either that or someone is messing with both your control panel and my PC - which has been responding to my commands in an unusually strange way, lately.
And, I repeat, IF your posts were duplicated, you should have NO problem providing links to the originals.

[pietro]

I've gone back and read both threads as well and have seen no duplicates and before the excuse is the dups were deleted, I have copies of the closed thread in it's entirety from several weeks ago--kept updated on a daily basis, duely dated for each update, just in case it was needed for the "lawsuit".

There were no duplicate posts in my copies either.

[bluedahlia]

I have spent the last hour going though your posts in the closed thread

Lets get this sorted I asked you to explain the posts you made in this
thread giving the date of each post and the replies you made to the
person who posted before you. The posts were made by you in this
thread ( NOT IN ANY OTHER ),, There has been no glytch but maybe
you are getting a little confused. I would advise you to go back to the
start of this thread and read it again.

Well if dcwike's posts were duplicates, then it stands to reason, in other words, logic dictates, that Ianh, mrskitty and freecashspace's posts must also be duplicates because dcwike is directly responding to them.:hehe:

[ianh]

Well if dcwike's posts were duplicates, then it stands to reason, in other words, logic dictates, that Ianh, mrskitty and freecashspace's posts must also be duplicates because dcwike is directly responding to them.:hehe:



Maybe a new thread should be started about this, it could have been bill posting on behalf of dcwike.


Maybe this is a case of more info sharing at bgpaymail !

[halexzo]

quoting freecashspace

Sure they are. And you can prove that, can you? Of course not. As usual.

Bill's "representatives" using multiple forum accounts

Can you prove your accusation? Of course NOT, as usual.

Which is kinda funny, since the stats page says BGPayMail only has 3,687 active members.

And Sites do not RESEND Mails, if they Ad would not get the full amount of clicks purchased?

You invited them to the thread, encouraged them to share their opinions, and then were rude to them, threatened them, and posted lies about them if they didn't say what you wanted them to say. Real nice.

According to that Mail that was send out, Members from BGPM ONLY were invited.Why would you assume NON Members would be invited also? For what reason?So they can disrupt the thread and derail the subject, like those few that DID come from Boycott ?Because the thread was closed here?

Neither was I rude to, nor did I threatened anyone. And NO lies were posted,unlike in this Forum,where mostly the self proclaimed 'protectors of PTR' post and throw around accusations.

Iam just curious, I see only the same little group doing the complaining here.Why is that? Because others just dont have anything to complain about?Nobody can see eye to eye with you all?

Is it not kind of strange that out of all the Members that BGPM has, and they all know, now , what is going on at Boycott and what BGPM is accused off, yet there are still not more complaints? Still ONLY the self proclaimed 'protectors of PTR' doing the finger pointing ONLY? Strange, is it not?

[trulyfair]

I was reading the beginning of the other thread too looking for those posts that had been "duplicated". I couldn't find them but I did come across this information here. (http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showpost.php?p=75232&postcount=277)

BGPM site stats as at August 9, 2006:

Total Affiliates: 13,285
Active Affiliates: 5,716
Total Payouts: $ 46,634.55
Mails in queue: 41
Ads in rotation: 26
Paid-To-Clicks: 0

BGPM site stats as of today February 13, 2007:

Total Affiliates: 8,386
Active Affiliates: 3,688
Total Payouts: $ 47,146.94
Mails in queue: 8
Ads in rotation: 47
Paid-To-Clicks: 0
Wow, in eight months only $512.39 has been paid out, that's a very low amount for a program of it's size, isn't it? Taking the payout level of $3.00 that means that 170.796 members would have been paid. Even assuming all members are Gold level, with payout at $1.00, only 512 would have been paid in the last 8 months.

Now why on earth are the BGer's so zealous in their defense of the program, they certainly aren't earning big bucks through the PTR side of it, are they? There has to be something else that's much more profitable than merely clicking links. ;)

[RBNLOVESPOH]

I am really curious why each time the BGthread starts to die out it is usually you or Donna who will do something to get things rolling again.

Now you have whined that GPTB should close the thread and stop the so called "attack" on BGPM..and so they did.

Then what did you two do....well of course you sent out a paid email to everyone steering them to the bgforum and linking to this one. It doesn't take a lot of smarts to know where it goes from there and exactly what you wanted to happen...did.

The only thing I am NOT absolutely sure of is your motive.

Is it to continue showing/proving your undying devotion to Bill and thus continue to sit in the favored seat.

OR is it a simple case of wanting to see your name in lights? I am not sure but either one is pathetic.I can understand defending a site you believe in but this goes far deeper than the personal opinion of a ptr site.

You obviously expected a large crowd to run over to bg and make all the normal posts of how much they love Bill and how they will be with him until he kicks them to the curb etc. etc. but it appears the more fanatical type members are leaving and many of the rest are just regular people who care about the site in a normal.." I enjoy BGPM" type of way.

You( general) bring up issues which are flat out wrong... for example..."This is about a payment which was late due to problems with pp. It has been shown many times that all this preceded any problem with pp by a fair amount of time but ...hey dont let a few facts stop you.

Pfft

Belle


Could not agree more Belle. The thread was dead,the other one was locked by their request and they start it up again:stupid:

BGPMail needs to be on the boycottlist for several reasons, all of which have been shown here in this thread,the locked thread as well.
I think it is funny that the so called wonderful members are leaving in droves to get away from a BAD site where the PO picks and chooses who gets paid and when. Sad, Very Sad IMO.:\

[RBNLOVESPOH]

I was reading the beginning of the other thread too looking for those posts that had been "duplicated". I couldn't find them but I did come across this information here. (http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showpost.php?p=75232&postcount=277)

BGPM site stats as at August 9, 2006:



BGPM site stats as of today February 13, 2007:


Wow, in eight months only $512.39 has been paid out, that's a very low amount for a program of it's size, isn't it? Taking the payout level of $3.00 that means that 170.796 members would have been paid. Even assuming all members are Gold level, with payout at $1.00, only 512 would have been paid in the last 8 months.

Now why on earth are the BGer's so zealous in their defense of the program, they certainly aren't earning big bucks through the PTR side of it, are they? There has to be something else that's much more profitable than merely clicking links. ;)

I guess you have to be in the special group like dcwike and halexzo in order to do good at this site.:p

[ianh]

quoting freecashspace





Can you prove your accusation? Of course NOT, as usual.



And Sites do not RESEND Mails, if they Ad would not get the full amount of clicks purchased?



According to that Mail that was send out, Members from BGPM ONLY were invited.Why would you assume NON Members would be invited also? For what reason?So they can disrupt the thread and derail the subject, like those few that DID come from Boycott ?Because the thread was closed here?

Neither was I rude to, nor did I threatened anyone. And NO lies were posted,unlike in this Forum,where mostly the self proclaimed 'protectors of PTR' post and throw around accusations.

Iam just curious, I see only the same little group doing the complaining here.Why is that? Because others just dont have anything to complain about?Nobody can see eye to eye with you all?

Is it not kind of strange that out of all the Members that BGPM has, and they all know, now , what is going on at Boycott and what BGPM is accused off, yet there are still not more complaints? Still ONLY the self proclaimed 'protectors of PTR' doing the finger pointing ONLY? Strange, is it not?


Funny how there is just a handful at bg also, but then maybe the chance of that big bonus is enough incentive on top of the 2c already being paid.

Maybe some of the original complainants were so disilussioned with being a member at bg that they left ptr totally and never have or intend to come back into ptr. Think about it, after all, bg has had some of the biggest losses of member base in ptr. That does not happen for no reason and I would take a guess that it is not all down to the paypal issue.

What do the losses amount to ?

Somewhere near 11,000 maybe more if you take into consideration how many may have joined since the site had some 16,000+ members


Dec 05 there where nearly 13,000 members
Feb 07 there are now 8,386 with only 3,689 active's


Lets have an example shall we say Gainpay being that :

Dec 05 they had around about 13,000 also
Feb 07 they now have 24,996

So you say, how many are inactive, well we don't know.

But think about this, on bg I was inactive for 219 days and the only reason anyone knew is because it was me that said about it.


Think about the possible figures, maybe bg could have had 30,000 members by now.

So therefore maybe I have helped some not to have suffered the indignity of being a member of bg. If I have and it may only be one but then it could be a few more, but then I think maybe I have done quite well considering.

[ianh]

I was reading the beginning of the other thread too looking for those posts that had been "duplicated". I couldn't find them but I did come across this information here. (http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showpost.php?p=75232&postcount=277)

BGPM site stats as at August 9, 2006:



BGPM site stats as of today February 13, 2007:


Wow, in eight months only $512.39 has been paid out, that's a very low amount for a program of it's size, isn't it? Taking the payout level of $3.00 that means that 170.796 members would have been paid. Even assuming all members are Gold level, with payout at $1.00, only 512 would have been paid in the last 8 months.

Now why on earth are the BGer's so zealous in their defense of the program, they certainly aren't earning big bucks through the PTR side of it, are they? There has to be something else that's much more profitable than merely clicking links. ;)



In that time scale I would say if you really wanted to and you got paid by most if not all of the programs that you join, you could probably earn that amount of money yourself without to much of a struggle.


Thus saying, a member can earn as much as bg pays his whole member base in about 8 months.http://emcsmileys.com/s/hahaha.gif

[freecashspace]

quoting freecashspaceBill's "representatives" using multiple forum accounts
Can you prove your accusation? Of course NOT, as usual.Of course I can. Why would I post an accusation I couldn't back up with evidence?

Grandma = Jacquie (http://bgpaymail.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2586&view=findpost&p=29751)

Jacquie = Jacquie (http://bgpaymail.com/forum/index.php?showforum=56)

One of Bill's "representatives" using multiple forum accounts.

Cheers,

Wil

[bluedahlia]

I can not recall ANY thread about BGPM where Donna (dcwike) has not been a major participant and yet suddenly she decides that posts made in June of last year are stolen quotes from another thread. It wasnt noticed until now??

I would also like to see those posts in the other thread and as they are made with Donna's IP...well...yeah OK.

IMO It appears to be scraping the bottom of the barrel on a witchhunt to deflect from BG by making a claim against GPTB ( very cautiously worded )

Can this whole thing get any crazier.

Belle


ETA

I haven't made it to BGForum yet but i have no doubt it will be accepted there without question...just as everything else has.
PFFT

I really think she became confused in her zeal to dig up dirt about GPTB. Maybe she had too many windows open at once and just made a mistake.

Making a mistake is one thing, being mature enough to admit that mistake and apologize for it, is another matter altogether.

I have seen things posted at BG about GPTB that only contradicts what they are supposedly trying to expose. As Dr. Phil would say....."What were you thinking??????". It just seems to be backfiring with regard to the credibility of some of the posters.

So far, is that a job well done? I wonder what Donald Trump would do in such a situation.

[freecashspace]

And Sites do not RESEND Mails, if they Ad would not get the full amount of clicks purchased?I don't know. Do they? I can't imagine why they would. In the case of this particular ad, why would the advertise want to pay for BGPayMail members to read the same email twice, and visit the same forum thread twice? Or is it just twice? Will that ad need to be sent out time after time after time after time after time, trying to get enough BGPayMail members to read it and click on the link to get the "full amount of clicks"?

According to that Mail that was send out, Members from BGPM ONLY were invited.Why would you assume NON Members would be invited also? For what reason?So they can disrupt the thread and derail the subject, like those few that DID come from Boycott ?Because the thread was closed here?And why would you assume they were "NON Members"? After all that talk about how all the respect and decency at the BG Forum, and how everybody was allowed to share their opinion as long as they did it in a civilized, respectful manner, now you're here saying that all the people who didn't agree with your opinions were "NON Members" who only posted in the thread to disrupt and derail it.

With absolutely no evidece to back up your accusations that they were "NON Members."

And since you've proclaimed yourself as an official representative of BGPayMail, your lack of professional behaviour and your completely unfounded accusations should be considered legitimate reasons for adding BGPayMail to the boycott list.

Cheers,

Wil

[trulyfair]

Just found this (http://bgpaymail.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2483&st=155) post at BG forum:

Does anyone know the hard work involved in separating the shaft from the wheat?

Much the same can be applied to those who volunteer to moderate or who accept the assigned position. Just as wheat has to be thrashed again and again, moderators must constantly stomp on and warn those posters who make borderline on libelous comments, use post in a manner that uses personal inults, or false accusations for the sake of incite, or make any derogetary comments to derail or go against the topic discussed.

It can also be applied to those of us who post against the lies and accusations, for we are the ones who must defend our own integrities when there is an absense in moderation in the forum.

I don't mind my thoughts being debated in any forum. But, when my integrity is attacked, or I am called a liar, a prostitute, or cult follower, and Bill is called anything but what he is, which is a man of high integrity and professionalism, I have to speak out so that anyone viewing posts, too, can judge for themselves whether or not the forum really stands for its purpose.

First the posts I have made in one thread that was closed, have been duplicated, not by me, but, nothing was done. So, I posted what happened, publically. I didn't want people thinking I was the one posting in that thread.

Yet, the minute I make a public post about it, out of the blue comes the moderator, implying that that I am lying or that there is some sort of glitch with the program - and, warning me of the rules of the forum.

What's that tell you about that particular moderator? To me it shows the trait of distateful biass.

And, then, come the attackers who tell me they cannot find where these posts were duplicates of those I posted in the closed thread. And demand that I show proof.

Hmmmmmmmm. Well, I went back into the other thread, and, guess what? I can't find them either.
What's that tell you of the moderators, who have total control over editing and deleting posts?
Either that, or SOMEONE posting there had access to gptBoycott control panel that amin knows or doesn't know about.

The moderator explains in one thread that she doesn't have the time to maintain her duties due to having a life outside the forum, yet, within minutes, she can come in and belittle my integrity by not believing my report, or to repremand when questions arise of the forum's credebility?

Now I hear Ron has resigned! Now all we have left is a biassed moderator and, another who only has control over spam. Neither one of which is doing their jobs.

Where does that leave gptBoycott and their main objective - which is to boycott those programs that scam people out of their earnings?

It leaves that forum open to digging itself even deeper into the same kind of pit gptForum is now - mudslinging and bashing PTR programs, their POs and their members.

Cheers to Keith and Ron (if you really resigned) for your efforts in a good cause, but, chose to get out if it.

Jeers to the remaining admin of gptBoycott for your part in NOT maintaining the standards of what WAS once a great cause, but, has now, becuase of your lack in separating the wheat from the shaft, become the downfall of all that gptBoycott stood for.

At least here integrity is not bashed. At least here no one is called inappropriate names or stamped as zealots for believing in what they do.

At least here, the moderator does her job!

Oh, and just to let you all know it was I, who came in here and edited my own post for spelling purposes.

Please note: There is no indication that the above post was edited.....invisible editing it still happening in the BG forum. :baaa:

[bluedahlia]

Just found this (http://bgpaymail.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2483&st=155) post at BG forum:



Please note: There is no indication that the above post was edited.....invisible editing it still happening in the BG forum. :baaa:

OMG!!!! Talk about making a bad situation worse.

[ianh]

Just so there is no confusion over who copied and pasted this, it was me.


Looks like I might get deleted for copying and pasted, oh I'm really scared ! NOT !

This c/p includes the time also in case of any confusion with dcwike, seems she has posted so much crap she has forgotten what she posted and is now blaming the mods here for her posts.

"PLEASE NOTE"
The signs have been inserted by me not dcwike.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Donna

View Member Profile
Find Member's Posts Today, 10:24 PM Post #155


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1682
Joined: 20-May 05
Member No.: 454



Does anyone know the hard work involved in separating the shaft from the wheat? http://emcsmileys.com/s/herewegoagin.gif

Much the same can be applied to those who volunteer to moderate or who accept the assigned position. Just as wheat has to be thrashed again and again, moderators must constantly stomp on and warn those posters who make borderline on libelous comments, use post in a manner that uses personal inults, or false accusations for the sake of incite, or make any derogetary comments to derail or go against the topic discussed

It can also be applied to those of us who post against the lies and accusations, for we are the ones who must defend our own integrities when there is an absense in moderation in the forum.http://emcsmileys.com/s/crap.gif

I don't mind my thoughts being debated in any forum. But, when my integrity is attacked, or I am called a liar, a prostitute, or cult follower, and Bill is called anything but what he is, which is a man of high integrity and professionalism, I have to speak out so that anyone viewing posts, too, can judge for themselves whether or not the forum really stands for its purpose. http://emcsmileys.com/s/getaroom.gif

First the posts I have made in one thread that was closed, have been duplicated, not by me, but, nothing was done. So, I posted what happened, publically. I didn't want people thinking I was the one posting in that thread.

Yet, the minute I make a public post about it, out of the blue comes the moderator, implying that that I am lying or that there is some sort of glitch with the program - and, warning me of the rules of the forum.
What's that tell you about that particular moderator? To me it shows the trait of distateful biass.http://emcsmileys.com/s/morelies.gif

And, then, come the attackers who tell me they cannot find where these posts were duplicates of those I posted in the closed thread. And demand that I show proof.

Hmmmmmmmm. Well, I went back into the other thread, and, guess what? I can't find them either.
What's that tell you of the moderators, who have total control over editing and deleting posts?

Either that, or SOMEONE posting there had access to gptBoycott control panel that amin knows or doesn't know about. http://emcsmileys.com/s/morelies.gif

The moderator explains in one thread that she doesn't have the time to maintain her duties due to having a life outside the forum, yet, within minutes, she can come in and belittle my integrity by not believing my report, or to repremand when questions arise of the forum's credebility ?

Now I hear Rob has resigned! Now all we have left is a biassed moderator and, another who only has control over spam. Neither one of which is doing their jobs.

Where does that leave gptBoycott and their main objective - which is to boycott those programs that scam people out of their earnings?

It leaves that forum open to digging itself even deeper into the same kind of pit gptForum is now - mudslinging and bashing PTR programs, their POs and their members.

Cheers to Keith and Ron (if you really resigned) for your efforts in a good cause, but, chose to get out if it.

Jeers to the remaining admin of gptBoycott for your part in NOT maintaining the standards of what WAS once a great cause, but, has now, becuase of your lack in separating the wheat from the shaft, become the downfall of all that gptBoycott stood for

At least here integrity is not bashed. At least here no one is called inappropriate names or stamped as zealots for believing in what they do.http://emcsmileys.com/s/excuseme.gif

At least here, the moderator does her job! http://emcsmileys.com/s/lies.gif



--------------------------------------------------------------------------





Well done dcwike, I did think at times you added some reasonable things, and yes you tried to help me understand things that I already understood.

But This Just defies all logic and I won't post what I would like to.



http://emcsmileys.com/s/coocoo.gifhttp://emcsmileys.com/s/coocoo.gifhttp://emcsmileys.com/s/coocoo.gif

[trulyfair]

OMG!!!! Talk about making a bad situation worse.

How true that is! Some people just don't have any common sense.

[bluedahlia]

Dcwike,

One question, if I may, were Ianh's, mrskitty's and freecashspace's posts duplicated. You were responding to their posts made in this thread. So, if your posts were duplicates, then so must theirs be. Is that what you're saying.

You realize your credibility is now at stake. In a court of law, if you are found to have told one lie, then everything else you say will be considered lies. This is a "Perry Mason" moment.

[ianh]

OMG!!!! Talk about making a bad situation worse.



With friends like dcwike, who needs enemies !



http://emcsmileys.com/s/danger.gif

[Rob]

I want it to be noted here that all the posts that appear to be stated by me(prior to this date) in this thread have NOT been stated by me in THIS thread.

They are exact replicas of what I stated in the thread in the "General Program Discussion":

http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showthread.php?p=80372#post80372

I have NOT posted in this thread at all until today.

Had the people who dragged my posts over here used the quote feature I would have said nothing - as that would have been appropriate. But, my posts were placed here without my knowledge and without using the quote feature, and I find that as underhanded means to appear as if I, myself, have posted here just soon after Ianh started this thread.

I did NOT post HERE at all until today.

All I can say is this goes to show how desperately SOMEONE wants a program to be boycotted, and how they will use inappropriate tactics to do so.


This is a bizarre and as far as I am aware unprecedented claim here in these forums. It is difficult to know how to respond to such a claim, though if you would care to e-mail me at our usual support e-mail address (PM me for it if you don't know) then I will modify or delete any posts which you feel have been made by someone else using your account. Needless to say I would recommend that you change your password for security reasons.

It ALSO goes to show how slack the moderation is in this forum, and, brings to point the true purpose of gptBoycott.


I think you realise this demonstrates no such thing. If your assertions that your posts were wrongly made by someone using your account - how would we know that? We can't cross-check the IP address of every post made by every member - that would be ridiculous.

Without proper moderation to keep the threads at bay how can they gptBoycott maintain their purpose?

Granted, moderators have a life outside this forum, and they do not get paid. However, being that that's the case, why hasn't admin increased the number of moderators to KEEP the purpose of this forum in the perspective that it was created? Which was to discuss PTR matters in an appropriate manner so that the credibility of gptBoycott remains as a leader of HONESLY boycotting programs that are truly scam and do not pay their members.

These forums are merely an off-shoot of the main part of this site, which is accessible by visiting http://www.gptboycott.com. It is the rest of the site which serves the purpose of boycotting fraudulent programs, operating watch lists and the like. This forum exists to allow and to promote full discussion. The fact that such strong views from both sides about BGPayMail have been aired, and have been allowed to be aired, shows that this forum is serving its purpose well.

The founder of this forum has left, and left the control of the forum in the hands of Rob, who seems to have disappeared, too, because HE is too busy. Rob has left the forum authority in the hands of two other moderators, whom also seem to be too busy to keep up with the forum.

The founders of this website were myself and Keith. I'm still here. I get busy periods (increasingly frequently, it seems) and I get quiet periods. I spend my spare time helping this site. My life outside of the internet will obviously take priority.

Folks, gptBoycott has started out with a very good cause for those who are involved in the realm of gpt. And, I admired their stance, their ability to separate the wheat from the shaft, as far as determining the credibility of complaints and posts. However, as it now, I feel this forum is a MOCKERY of it's own purpose, and has fallen into the same mud slinging pits as gptForum.

And, it has allowed its forum to be controlled by people so desperate to get a program boycotted that they have the audacity to just move people's original posts from one thread to another!

I disagree that the forum is controlled by any person or people with a particular agenda. As I mentioned, we have allowed people to air their opinions as fully as possible. History is on our side - many members (some of whom were notable program owners) have shown their true colours in this forum in the past. People will form their own judgments about the validity and sincerity of others opinions - the job of the forum is to provide the means by which those opinions may be expressed.

Once again, my posts in this thread are EXACT replicas of my posts in a thread that has been closed. I have NOT the authority to do that, nor would I do it even if I knew HOW to do it.

I think it's despicable that this is being done, and, even more disgusting that moderators don't care enough about the PURPOSE of this forum to even take a few minutes a day and stay on top of the smut and mudslinging that has dragged this forum to the level of mere entertainment, rather than for a just cause.

I have explained the true purpose of this forum as distinct from the more broad purpose of GPTBoycott as a whole. If our forum rules are being broken, I encourage you to use the report button to report the offending posts. If you think our forum rules aren't comprehensive, I invite you to suggest how that situation may be rectified.

I don't come here to be entertained, or to see words twisted in an inappropriate manner. I come here to discuss PTR programs of which I am involved, and to read and understand different views.

Some I have defended to the hilt, and realized, in the end, that I've been wrong. But, BGPayMail is NOT one of them.

The other programs have flat out stopped paying HUNDREDS of people. Others have completely disappeared because of payment processing issues.

BGPayMail is back on track and has caught up on paying its members. And, the PO has even took a stance against the unjust treatment by a payment processor that, by descretion, can freeze, suspend, hold ANY PTR program accounts.

Nothing would please me more than for this to be true, and for those who doubted the honesty of the webmaster to be proved wrong. BGPayMail is not currently a boycotted site, you will note, but a site on our "Watch List". I think you will agree this is more than fair in the circumstances.

BGPayMail even SUPPORTED gptBoycott for what it stood for because they held his respect.

For which we were and remain grateful.

Yes, Ianh had a legitimate complaint in the beginning. And, even despite the fact that he did not go through the proper channels of dispute within the program, he was PAID. He even came in here and ADMITTED being paid.

Yet, the crusaders against click fraud, and those against advertising that violates the irrational PP AUP (not even listed as reasons to boycott), used this forum to hijack and derail the issues to boycott.

And, the moderators allowed it to go unmonitored.

As mentioned above, BGPayMail is not currently boycotted. How the discussion takes its course depends on the community here as a whole - it would not be our right place to attempt to influence the discussion.

Rob

[ianh]

Dcwike,

One question, if I may, were Ianh's, mrskitty's and freecashspace's posts duplicated. You were responding to their posts made in this thread. So, if your posts were duplicates, then so must theirs be. Is that what you're saying.

You realize your credibility is now at stake. In a court of law, if you are found to have told one lie, then everything else you say will be considered lies.



To the best of my knowledge all of my post's are what I posted, and the replies to those posts to the best of my knowledge were the one's that I read soon after I posted my post's.

This is just to clarify my position

[Rob]

I have the flu at the moment and am going to head back to bed as my head is spinning right now, but will reply to one comment which caught my eye.

Now I hear Rob has resig