e-mailpaysU

[cyberrat]

once again the web master ups payout when I get close to it the first time he up the 25 dollar payout to 30. and this time he put the point pay out from 3.00 to 8.00 He send very few emails and the paid to click section went from 1 cent per click to .05 per click with the promise that it would bring more advertisers guess what no more advertisers :(.

[mailman86]

Originally posted by cyberrat
once again the web master ups payout when I get close to it the first time he up the 25 dollar payout to 30. and this time he put the point pay out from 3.00 to 8.00 He send very few emails and the paid to click section went from 1 cent per click to .05 per click with the promise that it would bring more advertisers guess what no more advertisers :(.

I'm sick of his crap too. He treats his members like his animated pennies, they keep walking but they never get there. I guess someone else, besides him, has to pay to raise his new kid.

[fullauto]

Wow, personal attacks on me? I was going to respond to these post in detail until I read the personal attack, I welcome you to email me with your phone number and I will call and discuse in great detail why we raised the min, you forgot to mention that the min for international members was lowered :) I am sure since your so concerned to make a public post like you did you will be more than willing to personally talk with me. I await your email mailman86.

Treat our members like walking pennies? We sent out over 900 checks this month. We give away almost $1,000 dollars a month in free advertising. Checks are mailed everyday. When we add new ways to earn money we have to raise the min. Each account has to be reviewed for cheating and errors. All of this takes time. Only so many checks can be processed at a time. We have dozens of new subscribers that join each day that apply for a credit card offer or several of the other higher paying paid to sign up rewards and they earn $30 or more in the first hour of being a member.

God Bless,


Look forward to hear from you mailman86.

[hamlet]

If other webmasters can payout at .50 cents throw paypal then why in the world are you jacking up payout everytime people turn around I am sure that people can reach 30 or more rather quickly if they choose to sign up for book clubs that charge outragious prices for books or if they want a bunch of credit cards. But what about your other member that have been at you site for over a year and are not even close to cashout. you dont seam to care about them. For them maybe you should try to get more advertisers for the paid to click section like you said you would when you lowered the price per click. You seam to be forcing members to sign up for credit cards etc. Or even maybe add some newsletters or something so that you can make all your members happy.

[fullauto]

Of course we are trying to get new advertisers, in order to be competitive we would have to lower prices even lower, which means we would need to lower the amount paid for email ads, then that would make everyone angry. We could pay out every month for ever penny subscribers earned but then we would have to remove the free $10 sign up bonus... and that just isn't the way the program was designed when it was programmed.

Any change that is mentioned requires high programming cost and office amstrative cost in the form of man hours. Lots of ideas and things would like to do. Lots of stuff we are working on.

Just being a subscriber of something for years doesn't entiled you to money. Its your activity as a subscriber. Everytime we do payouts 100's of subcribers who have no referrals receive payments. The days of subscribing and doing nothing then receiving a check are long gone. As for jacking up the payments every time your turn around? We raised our regular pay out once and the paid with points payments once. The only way to keep our payout process from becoming completely bogged down.

No matter what you do some people are going to be upset. If you have serious suggestions send me an email with your phone number lets talk.

Remember change is part of life, we will continue to make changes and ad new things to our program.



God Bless :)

[frekdim]

i must say that i am a member of this program and have been for over a year, no i have not been paid 1x, but i never have thought them to be a scam just a little under advertised.(no advertisers)
maybe they could have a few more but i think they will try to do the best they can in time.(i hope)

Lets try to do some ads and get things going.
I will, will u all? Thats what keeps these programs going,
US doing it together.

[govind]

I just wrote the following in connection with the PaidBizOpMail.
This is valid for any other program.

Hi Jane,
I M currently member of the PaidBizOpMail program. I did loose some of my referrals but I am not removed from the program. So, I would not be able to participate in UR Class action legal step. However, I have something to say about it. My feeling is that any legal professional might not be interested in it because of so little money involved. So I suggest U to broaden the scope. I think the guilty party is the TOS as written by these programs! I could then participate in any program and would be the first one to donate $100 initially and later on much more. Let me point out to U one common step these programs take when they are in trouble. They invariably temper with the existing MINIMUM PAYOUT amount.

On Increasing the Minimum Payout
Increasing the minimum payout by a program adversely affects members. It is quite clear that the program is incurring financial difficulty. Any other reason given by the owner is just a sweet talk! The program can not honor the existing payout. On the other hand, it is not the fault of the members. They must be PAID for the TASK they performed. This is the age old rule of the civilized people. Needless to say a business person takes the risk because the reward in terms of the profit only belongs to her/him.

Action on our part:

First, we should let the lawyers examine the TOS as presented by these programs. Upon reading the TOS of various programs one gets the impression that the owners possess DIVINE RIGHTS. They could do no WRONG. They could change the TOS at their will! It is quite possible that the TOS might not withstand legal scrutiny. Can a program change the original TOS without honoring the existing commitments?

[fullauto]

I am a little confused here,

You make the assumption 100% that the reason a program would raise their min is because they are having finical difficulty. This isn't necessarily the situation. Lost of programs that webmasters use like shareasale, commission junction etc have raised their min from $25 to $50. These companies are very profitable, main reason is paper work. You know how hard it is to process 1,000 payments? It takes months with our program. Why? Main reason is because cheating is so out of control each account has to viewed individually. Currently the most effective way we have of tracking and catching this is done mostly by hand... manually reviewing accounts. Now we could spend $1,000's to put together some sort of fancy system to help us, but with the current state of internet advertising industry this not something we can afford to do.

As programs grow larger the number of payments to be processed increase, you have to keep your payout to a number that can honestly be paid and processed in a timely manner.

The current state of the paid to - reward programs isn't all the fault of the program management. But that is all I see posted here. No one every mentions the 1,000's of man hours that are lost each year to members cheating. Most of the program owners will tell you people have all but stopped purchasing products through email ads and banner displays. The bottom line business of a reward program is to move product. To sell product. Not to give people money for clicking. The awarding of money or points is the incentive, but when no product is being sold their business will go under. Do you blame this on ItPaystoLearn? I use them only as an example. Is it their fault the members aren't purchasing the products the advertisers are advertising? They are a business, so they have to stay in business.

I personally love itpaystolearn. Sucks they raised their minimum. But you know what? I personally agreed to the fact that they could raise their min at any time when I joined their program. Did they put that in their just for fun? No it was placed in their just for times like these. They can no longer process as many payments. Most likely do to the fact that they have had to let staff go and just can no longer afford to process as many payments. Whose fault is that? Bottom line it is the subscribers of the program. When people stop clicking on banners and buying products they started losing advertisers. The management is the middle man, the advertisers and the subscribers come together to create a quality program.

My point is its not just the program management that is at fault and in many cases not at fault at all. Would you rather they just closed down? or let what happen to alladvantage dozens of other programs happen to them? They would be silly too.

Remember you get what you pay for 99% of the time:) I am avaiable for contact most of the days of the week on icq and yahoo instant messengers and always willing to talk with people on the phone. I encourage you to contact me or any program management before you just go around posting negative comments that might necessarily be true. I would love to talk with you about the business, current state of the surf reward business, future of e-mailpaysu or anything for that matter. I'm on yahoo and icq, and often at cashglow all them time :) contact info is below.


God bless


Gerald Peters
CEO, E-mail Pays U
http://www.e-mailpaysu.com
ICQ # 36164614
yahoo IM - emailpaysu

[hamlet]

itpaystolearn no longer pays anything!!!! my opinion is that they seen it comming but did not want to go under in the red so they raise the cash out and get members to do more clicking to help them get caught up and when they are guess what no more payments. Sounds planed to me. I seen it comming so i go rid of them along time ago.

And if programs like linkburst and links2cash and others I can name a ton with one and two dollar payouts can pay then i see no reason other than finanical problems for raising cash out. Maybe if webmasters did not try running a dozen different programs because they want all the cash then they would have time to pay their members.

[fullauto]

Hey Hamlet,

I still waiting for you to email me with your phone number so we can discuses these issues you are so sure about. webmaster@e-mailpaysu.com I will even pay for the call :)

The reason is link burst is programmed completely different. When we started our program almost 4 years ago it was the norm to payout at a min amount. In order for us to do that, we would have to one remove all the $10 bonuses. Don't think we would be able to pay 260,000 people $10.

We would also have to completely re program the software that drives our program. Currently with programmers cost $100 or more an hour that isn't a possibility. Linkburst is able to do this because he is paying by paypal, which as you know isn't guaranteed to stay in business any more than anyone else. I can guarantee you linkburst isn't going to send 100,000 $.10 and $.15 cent checks :) that is just common sense.

If you don't like programs with a min payout amount don't join them. Its a free world, but don't just talk bad about programs that don't do things your way. I look forward to that email Hamlet love to talk with you on the phone :)


Gerald Peters
CEO, E-mail Pays U
http://www.e-mailpaysu.com
ICQ # 36164614
yahoo IM - emailpaysu

[hamlet]

in a word no I have no need to chat with you on phone or msn. I like to keep any thing i have to say public.

one i did not say i have a problem with minimum payout programs just the ones that change the rules in the middle of the game.

I think there is a big difference between sending a 25.00 check and a .15 cent check, the two can't even be compared no one in their right mind would expect a company to send that small amount in check form. But when you are above 20 then by almeans i expect to get what i signed up for. If that was in the terms at the time I joined. Terms should be set in stone just like anyother business i do business with.

[fullauto]

Hamlet,

Please let me know what paid to / reward program that you do business with that has its term set in stone?

Gerald Peters
CEO, E-mail Pays U
http://www.e-mailpaysu.com
ICQ # 36164614

[govind]

Hi, thanks for UR response! Let me state at the outset that I have nothing against U as a person. Actually, U were always prompt in responding to my queries, the few times I wrote to U and I thank U for that. You also were kind enough to let go the error in converting points to cash which was beneficial to the members but a huge loss to you. If I recall somebody stole money from UR e-Gold account and I understand UR pain! Also, I must state that I have never read any where that U did not honor the cash redemption of a member.
U have given the business side of the whole picture very nicely and I appreciate it and I think most people will appreciate it. But my problem still remains unsolved! As a business man U have every right to take steps to remain in business. But is changing the minimum payout amount the solution for all the problems U cite?

Cheaters: The world is full of cheaters. So we have a fair share on UR(GPTR owners) side and a fair share on our (members) side. The reason in the forum like the present one no body talks about the cheating members is because we members do not have available any data on them. U, the owners have access to that data. A few months back they found some error in the CAC scripts , giving erroneous numbers of referrals. Basically, it showed multiple memberships by a given person. So it was corrected very hurriedly by the programs . But before that correction, the programs were inundating us with the complaints that many people were cheating by having multiple accounts. But to the best of my knowledge no program apologized to the members that it was the fault of the CAC scripts! In any event U have to solve this problem on your own and we do not have any ability to participate in the solution. This is because I do not know them if I am asked to name them. Some members might know them but I am certain that most members do not know them.

Should Clickers be paid?: U raised a very good point if merely clicking should reward a person. It is quite true that companies want to sell products. Ideal situation would be if all of us start buying products. Well, in the case of the advertisements for the GPTR programs people do sign up and that solves their problem. There are people who sign up for the Traffic and the affiliated programs whenever ads are run for those programs. As far as the real physical products are concerned it is expecting too much from the clickers. A few will buy the products but perhaps not a whole lot. But I hope one of the aims of the companies selling new products is also selling the BRAND recognition. I remember the days when the tobacco companies used to give free cigarettes to people just for the sake of brand recognition and hopefully selling them the products in future. Also we can not buy all the products for which we click. I spend on line a bit less than $100 per month for the calling cards. I did buy my computer on line just a few months back. I think I am sure the companies are able to sell some products together with the brand recognition. They ought to be happy with it.



Financial difficulty: In my view when a program tempers with the TOS so as to affect adversely the members, it is due to financial problems felt by the program. The tempering includes the changing of the referral contributions and the raising of the minimum payout amount. When I made this statement, I did not mean 100% because if I did so I would be violating the second law of thermodynamics. But I will make a compromise here for the sake of clarity and say that I am ALMOST 100% certain that this Is indeed the case. This statement will then cover the programs that had some other reasons and not the financial difficulty. But, it is quite obvious to all of us that the day of reckoning is being postponed. I can give U numerous examples where this was the case. A program which comes to my mind was or Is the Skiddily (correct spelling forgotten!). This program increased the minimum payout from $15 to $35 (or was it from $10 to $15 and then to $35) and never paid me( my $40) or the others! Many GPTR email programs routinely take other actions such as paying in terms of points, again victim of financial weakness! On the other hand, some programs have used this method in very productive ways to the benefit of the members. Coming back to UR program, raising minimum payout from $25 to $30 was not that painful than when the minimum payout for the points was more than doubled!

The TOS: Actually my suggestion to test the TOS as presently written, in the courts of law is not that bad. It will improve the competitive position of the programs such as yours. I am saddened to see some webmasters jump in to this business without realizing the hardships involved. If they knew that they would have to abide by the contractual agreement so as to pay the existing balances to the members before the TOS was tempered, then they would think twice before entering this business! Of course, I do not know if I am right about it because only the legal scrutiny will be a deciding factor. But I am ready to chip in $100 initially and much more later. Young people will have to take the lead in it. The old and aged person like me would not be the right person!. I say it would do good to all of us!

[hamlet]

Originally posted by fullauto
Hamlet,

Please let me know what paid to / reward program that you do business with that has its term set in stone?

Gerald Peters
CEO, E-mail Pays U
http://www.e-mailpaysu.com
ICQ # 36164614


There is not one paid to/reward program that is set in stone thats the problem. But they are a business and need to behave more like a business. Members are like puppets on strings there is nothing we can do about being jerked around we have to follow the webmasters every whim. Our only option is to quite the program and lose our money and our time which is a + to the webmasters. I do shop throw a lot of programs i do but only throw those that have paid me in the past!! because they have proven to me they care about members! That is very important to me.

Since these Programs are a Business they should be governed buy business laws just like walmart or any other small business.

[lnauroth]

I am not knowledgable enough about the business end of these programs to get into this debate. However, as an end user I have one comment for Mr. Peters: A $10 sign up bonus means absolutely nothing if you can't reach cashout level and therefore never get it in your hand. No, I'm not going to spend several hundred dollars through your advertisers or get an unneeded credit card to get it. I admit the $10 bonus is what prompted me to sign up for your program, but I long ago decided that my grandchildren will have grandchildren beofre I reached cashout (oops, I guess that makes me dead, doesn't it?)