4Daily.com - a daily fraud indeed

[transcom22]

4Daily has finally shed all inhibitions to say that the game is start fresh once again. In other words, over 200,000 members who had tirelessly put in hours together for months find themselves unrewarded. Hunt says that he has paid millions to many members: he did not talk about the millions he has made himself. He has also the audacity to say that he is legally well protected and his filters would take care of the hate mails. The guy is a shameless gangster.

When Shalomptr shut down, he atleast made a clean breast and just ran away. This guy has the temerity to start from the beginning again with the hope to cheat members again. Is there a law to track to down and punish such net crimes??

Will greatly appreciate members contribution in this regard.

[lil crusader]

There have been countless warnings posted on this and other forums about these kinds of programs concerning the fact that they're illegal and this sort of thing is bound to be the end result.

I'm not sure what you expect anyone to say to those of you who wouldn't listen to the warnings.

[govind]

I totally agree with U. Sorry to know about what happened to U. I have seen such cases in the PTR world far too many to cite here. Also, about70% of new busineses fail during the first year. It's a shame that it happens.
Please take care of yourself. Good luck!




4Daily has finally shed all inhibitions to say that the game is start fresh once again. In other words, over 200,000 members who had tirelessly put in hours together for months find themselves unrewarded. Hunt says that he has paid millions to many members: he did not talk about the millions he has made himself. He has also the audacity to say that he is legally well protected and his filters would take care of the hate mails. The guy is a shameless gangster.

When Shalomptr shut down, he atleast made a clean breast and just ran away. This guy has the temerity to start from the beginning again with the hope to cheat members again. Is there a law to track to down and punish such net crimes??

Will greatly appreciate members contribution in this regard.

[lil crusader]

I totally agree with U. Sorry to know about what happened to U. I have seen such cases in the PTR world far too many to cite here. Also, about70% of new busineses fail during the first year. It's a shame that it happens.
Please take care of yourself. Good luck!

1. 4Daily was not a PTR. It was an autosurf/ponzi, which is exactly the same kind of program you have devoutly supported in other threads throughout this forum (to the point of accusing those who disagree with your views of both "harassment" and "intimidation").

2. According to whois records, 4Daily was well into its 2nd year of operation, having passed the one-year mark 7 months ago (early March).

[Josh]

According to the site itself, 4Daily has just completed its first birthday.

I, too, wonder how 4Daily suddenly became part of the PTR world. Maybe this is simply too untimely, as the autosurf thread is still running in full force, and this sort of shows that even the favorite children of the group are eventually due to collapse, without being able to pay those who have put in money and earned.

[AnI4AnI]

This article was found at another forum:

HYIP and investment autosurfs at a glance

There is a new phenomenon bursting on the scene that is filling your email boxes, your search results and even in your favorite forum.

They are called HYIP (High Yield Investment Program).
More recently, paid autosurf programs are the rave.

Their promises of wealth and financial freedom are well reknown and to the novice user, appear to be legitimate and professional.

Unfortunately, that is not the case. Most of these programs purposely hide the owners identity. Why? I speculate because they don't want to be caught by the authorities some day. Why else would they purposely hide their identity? Regardless as to why they purposely hide their identity, lets look further into the flawed business model...

Most of these sites promise their members a return of 1% per day on up to 20% per day. To earn this promised return a member typically has to perform work to get it. This work typically consists of turning your computer on and let it autosurf through 100 pages of advertiser (or some variant of this). Autosurfing means opening your web browser and every 20 to 30 seconds, a new website will appear in your browser. You need not be in front of your computer to make this work. In fact, many members report that they turn their autosurf programs on and then go to bed.

How would this be a good advertising avenue for website promoters when very few members are actually viewing their website and their products/services? Quite frankly, its NOT a good form of advertising. In fact, it could be considered just burning up a websites hosting bandwidth because the advertiser virtually gets NO results from using this advertising technique.

Then why do so many people join these sites?
One answer: FOR THE MONEY!

OK, thats a fair enough answer. People all over the world would like to make money on the internet, no harm in that, right? But, how can the average internet user make money online? Most internet opportunity seekers have asked this question.

Sadly, the con men of the world have an answer for this.
Voila! Here come the HYIPs! They promise their members a profit percentage that is UNRIVALED by even the richest men in the world. How can a person, who is chosen to hide his identity on the internet, suddenly have the answer that the greatest financial minds have been unable to figure out?

Here's how the typical site is ran. The webmaster creates the site, typically from a generic script that is widely available for cheap. He will then start promoting and, like moths drawn to a light, members will flock to the site and join. Some members are naive and hope the site is honest while other, more sinister, type members, know full well the site is a scam but know that the way to play the game is get in early and profit BEFORE the site disappears into the night. These members will boast about the site, often telling stories of how much they have been paid (whether they have yet or not) because they know that they will only succeed in profiting IF they can get new members to join and invest their money as well.

Lets get down to the underlying "engine" of the site: the money generator. The argument that many pro-autosurf members claim is "the site has paid me before so therefore, that makes them legitimate".
No, sorry, that is the oldest game in the book with con men. They MUST appear legitimate for a little while so that they can use the first investors "good word" to attract even more investors. Sure, they could simply rip off the first 10 investors for a few hundred bucks but it is much smarter to PAY those members back, with interest, so they can then brag to the rest of the world of their success. Once this good news hits the internet, thousands will invest money and this webmaster can now accumulate $50k, $100k, even $1million in member's investments. Someday in the not so distant future, the webmaster must make a decision:

Should I pay another month's worth of payouts or should I disappear now?

Only the webmaster knows when he will pull the plug because he has most likely predetermined an amount of money he wants to keep for himself as his goal. Once that happens, ALL members have lost whatever is their current balance in their account. The early members (about 10%) most likely would have profited but the remaining 90% will have lost in the program.

That is how these sites work.

No matter how much or how little we, the people who don't believe in these types of programs preach, the site WILL implode (crash and burn) someday due to the fact that their revenue never exceeds the promised returns they offer their members.

Author Unknown

[Belgarth]

Well I am not going to use 4% anymore either. Luckly I got the money I put in back. But I lost $300 that I had made extra. And Whats to stop him doing it again. (Oh moneys getting tight lets reset all the accounts)
Thats no better than a criminal talking. And I think it should be the end of 4d.

[lightning1901]

i too lost money in 4daily, i invested 20 bucks and shortly after is when they started having the problems, i keep my money in there without requesting a payout as they begged everyone to do,,,and today my account is reset to the 4 dollar level, i didnt even break even

[lil crusader]

i too lost money in 4daily, i invested 20 bucks and shortly after is when they started having the problems, i keep my money in there without requesting a payout as they begged everyone to do,,,and today my account is reset to the 4 dollar level, i didnt even break even

Sorry you lost money lightning, but hopefully you learned a couple of things from this experience:

1. Stay away from ponzis.....they're illegal and they'll all eventually end just like 4Daily did. (This includes all the other members of the "Daily family" AND the much-revered Studiotraffic, which by the way is showing signs of being in deep trouble.)

2. If the owner of ANY program begs you not to claim money that is rightfully yours, then there is obviously a serious problem and you should ignore the begging, try to get your money, and then get out.

[clarkecounty]

Wasn't there a report on the site back in like April or May boasting about bringing in $3 million in revenue? I think I still have the article I wrote, but never published, on them. I'll have to see if I can locate it.

But with autosurfs, you need to be extremely careful. A Ponzi scheme is one set up without any kind of funding behind it. Absolutely no investments or revenue to pay those who invest. So that makes these autosurfs seem like they're okay, right?

Wrong. The autosurfs do have a small revenue stream behind them on top of what the company brings in with investments. That's actually where autosurfs need to make the distinction - investments vs revenue. They are different, very different.

Investment income comes from, well, the investors, those who provide a company with capital with a reasonable expectation of a return based on an investment agreement. Investments are supposed to provide a steady payment of interest, and the company accepting the capital investment is supposed to provide to the investor a plan as to how that money will be spent.

Because autosurfs can probably be seen as an investment, one place you can probably take your complaint is the SEC. But the problem is that this guy has the whois information blocked - how convenient. But I'm sure with enough people complaining, the SEC can subpoena the registrar for that information.

Here's one question - if Mr Hunt is the CEO of an actual company, why is the whois information protected, and is the company actually incorporated, and if so which state issued the corporate charter?

If this is the case, then the $9 million debt the site has incurred is legally unobtainable by the members as he's possibly protected by corporate liability laws. I say possibly because there is one legal doctrine called "piercing the corporate veil", but that requires evidence that he was trying to hide corporate assets under his personal name, which I think qualifies here.

But to call 4Daily a Ponzi is a little inaccurate. Not entirely inaccurate, only a little. The reason I say this is because you were never required to pay into 4daily to get a cash return. Under the new rules, you must pay in to get cash out. By legal definition that creates an investment.

Because of the sheer amount of money owed by this individual to his investors under the previous investment plan, the SEC will probably be willing to get involved assuming there are enough complaints filed. And that will be a shocking day for the industry to see in the headlines "4Daily.com busted for Ponzi activity by SEC".

[transcom22]

Thank you for this information. I am ofcourse very ignorant on such matters so can you advice what is SEC and how does one complain to them. Few of the members can join together and lodge a complaint.

Thanks a lot once again.

[AnI4AnI]

It's the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (http://www.sec.gov) which provides information about investment opportunities.

Taken from their "What We Do" page:

The laws and rules that govern the securities industry in the United States derive from a simple and straightforward concept: all investors, whether large institutions or private individuals, should have access to certain basic facts about an investment prior to buying it. To achieve this, the SEC requires public companies to disclose meaningful financial and other information to the public, which provides a common pool of knowledge for all investors to use to judge for themselves if a company's securities are a good investment. Only through the steady flow of timely, comprehensive and accurate information can people make sound investment decisions.

Hope that helps.

[Josh]

Problem is that it's no given that "Mr. Hunt" is even living in the U.S. Yes, the whoisprivacyprotect.com is actually located in the U.S. (Washington, what a shocker!), so they could be subpoenaed, as mentioned before.

Best bet, in the future, is to stay out of this type of program altogether, so that your money won't have a chance to disappear.

[AnI4AnI]

Yes, Josh...from what I understand, that's a huge problem with many of these shady programs. The perpetrators have gone to great lengths to hide their real identies, addresses and phone numbers. Some are located off-shore and some of them, the authorities already know about but are in the middle of jurisdictional disputes with other countries. Sometimes these complications create a real problem for law enforcement. It's still good to file complaints though because most often, that's what they base their investigations on.

And you're absolutely correct that prevention is even better than recourse.

[clarkecounty]

Problem is that it's no given that "Mr. Hunt" is even living in the U.S. Yes, the whoisprivacyprotect.com is actually located in the U.S. (Washington, what a shocker!), so they could be subpoenaed, as mentioned before.

Best bet, in the future, is to stay out of this type of program altogether, so that your money won't have a chance to disappear.

Yeah it's located in Washington state, not DC - Bellevue, WA. So the feds would be able to subpoena them as part of a investigation to get the whois information.

Of course if this guy were a legitimate company, why is he hiding his whois information? It's the public whois information that ties his domain name as equity to his company -- assuming it's properly registered with the authorities.

And even if the whois information is inaccurate, the hosting information must be for billing purposes, so they'll always have one way of getting this person.

One other thing I just thought of as well. If this guy actually brought in enough to pay out $4 million, as his site claims, then the IRS would be very interested, assuming this person's actually in the United States. That's because those payouts must be reported to the IRS, including tax reports being filed on individual members as well.

And one thing I know for sure is that if he paid out more than $400 to any one person within a calendar year, and that person resides in the United States, then 4daily must collect the SSN or INS Alient # for that individual and file a tax report of it with the IRS. But if the IRS decides to classify activity through 4daily as an investment -- well now we're talking about even more complex tax codes.

Tax laws can get complicated at times, and if this guy isn't reporting his payouts to US members to the IRS, things are going to get even more complicated -- for him at least.

[Josh]

It's still good to file complaints though because most often, that's what they base their investigations on.
You're right. Hopefully, someone will find and be able to go through a few legal procedings with him/her/them. "Mr. Hunt" certainly doesn't deserve to keep the money, nor to be free and able to re-start this scam and start new ones.

Yeah it's located in Washington state, not DC - Bellevue, WA.

I live in Washington state, which is why I mentioned that. Takes one to know one, I guess. :alien: