AYS update

[asutony]

Well the numbers just keep dropping. Current status 2,288 members surviving.

[cybertongue]

Well the numbers just keep dropping. Current status 2,288 members surviving.

I'd love to know why the other thread was closed...

[Josh]

Apparently, the staff thought it did more harm than help in the final stages of what it became. Looking at what is preserved for us to see, I can't say that I disagree. :)

[freecashspace]

Well the total number of members is dropping like a stone. What about the number of people waiting that payment waiting list? Any movement there?

Cheers,

Wil

[Josh]

Well the total number of members is dropping like a stone. What about the number of people waiting that payment waiting list? Any movement there?

Cheers,

Wil

I have nothing to do with the program, but if the membership total is dropping this quickly, I'll assume the payment queue is also shortening a bit here and there. :(

[investkid]

You may assume as much as you want; doesn't necessarily make it so.

I have nothing to do with the program, but if the membership total is dropping this quickly, I'll assume the payment queue is also shortening a bit here and there. :(

[bulldog10]

You may assume as much as you want; doesn't necessarily make it so.

Hey investkid :) .. ltns, glad to see you posting!

[investkid]

2,221.

Three days later and the number of members dropped by 67.

OT: Hi! Bulldog, long time no see. :D How're you doing?

[bulldog10]

2,235 right now.. looks like they picked up some members, not sure how that works (other than new people are joining)?

OT: Doing ok thanks :) Did I mention that it was good to see you posting? lol .. I know, just had to make sure you knew that!

[moniopt]

Looks like the word is out all around as AYS comes tumbling down. Thanks to all the pages indexed by the serps, there isn’t many searches one can do about AYS that doesn’t show the real side (the UNETHICAL side) of AYS somewhere on the indexed page as being a scam now . There are also plenty of sites that will warn against AYS also.
Good job !

Just in case newbie’s are just reading this and wondering what I am talking about. The staff here did a great job in summing it all up HERE (http://www.gptboycott.com/programs/programs.php?program=AllYouSubmitters)

Side note: Not that it really matters to me, but I am curious on why my thread was closed?

[investkid]

Moniopt,

Josh in Post 3 summed it up quite well. IMO, you add to that it was off topic for a while and at the end of the thread there were 2 posters going at each other quite not nicely and I think you got your answer.

Apparently, the staff thought it did more harm than help in the final stages of what it became. Looking at what is preserved for us to see, I can't say that I disagree. :)

[moniopt]

Moniopt,

Josh in Post 3 summed it up quite well. IMO, you add to that it was off topic for a while and at the end of the thread there were 2 posters going at each other quite not nicely and I think you got your answer.

I got an assumption, which seems like a good one, but Josh didn’t close the thread.

Doesn’t matter, I was just curious as usally there is a reason stated by the mod/admon who closed it ….

Total Members
2,178

[investkid]

I got an assumption, which seems like a good one, but Josh didn’t close the thread.

Doesn’t matter, I was just curious as usally there is a reason stated by the mod/admon who closed it ….

Total Members
2,178

You're right. They usually do. Maybe PM Rob for a more official reason?

The number of members seems to mostly be going down since the beginning of this thread: from 2,288 to 2,178.

[investkid]

Hey investkid :) .. ltns, glad to see you posting!

OT: And I'm so glad to see you posting too. :cool:

2nd OT: I just got it. Sorry, it took me a while; I'm so slow sometimes, I wonder how I got this far... :hehe: :laugh:

2,181 members now, not creeping up slowly I hope.

[AnI4AnI]

Just stopped in for a moment to make the following announcement:

I've been advised that, for those who did not receive payments and have kept records or screenshots of their accounts, there is a possibility where you can elect a representative and have them purchase your debt (by deferred payment) whereupon they would be able to file suit for a much larger amount. This would entail having everything documented, notarized and witnessed. It isn't a quick or easy remedy but it's an option.

If someone (other than myself) is willing to take this challenge on, it could be a precedent-setting case.

Good luck, friends!

[BobbiePolk]

Just stopped in for a moment to make the following announcement:

I've been advised that, for those who did not receive payments and have kept records or screenshots of their accounts, there is a possibility where you can elect a representative and have them purchase your debt (by deferred payment) whereupon they would be able to file suit for a much larger amount. This would entail having everything documented, notarized and witnessed. It isn't a quick or easy remedy but it's an option.

If someone (other than myself) is willing to take this challenge on, it could be a precedent-setting case.

Good luck, friends!

Yea, I can see that one unfold in a court of law. :laugh:

Why wouldn't you want to take this one on yourself AnI? Why couldn't you take on the challenge? Maybe because it wouldn't work?

[moniopt]

Actually AnI,

That's a good idea. Something I might consider. If anything it is just added pressure on the snakes that ripped so many people off.

I just might look into it as i have everything documented...screens shots and all. What can I lose...AYS took it all already...all that time spent reading and clicking all for them to steal it away from me. $180 of it.

Let these people laugh...as far as I am concerned, if they know the situation and are still supporting them...they are aiding and abetting. They need to look at their own ethics.

[BobbiePolk]

Honestly. So, AYS owes me for my time and reading ads and clicking the links say $200. You think someone is gonna come along, give me $200, and then go after AYS in court to sue for that money?
Stop and think about it? How silly does that sound? Who in their right mind would be stupid enough to give people money that is owed to them by someone else, and then chance it by thinking they will get it back by sueing someone they have no connection to whatsoever?

They would have less of a chance that any member of any site would have by taking a PO to court sueing for the balance of their accounts. It makes no sense.

If it is such a great idea, then why isn't AnI up to the challenge of doing it herself?

AnI, moniopt, wanna *buy* my account? LOL! I'll happily take screen shots of my account. :p

[bulldog10]

Honestly. So, AYS owes me for my time and reading ads and clicking the links say $200. You think someone is gonna come along, give me $200, and then go after AYS in court to sue for that money?
Stop and think about it? How silly does that sound? Who in their right mind would be stupid enough to give people money that is owed to them by someone else, and then chance it by thinking they will get it back by sueing someone they have no connection to whatsoever?

They would have less of a chance that any member of any site would have by taking a PO to court sueing for the balance of their accounts. It makes no sense.

If it is such a great idea, then why isn't AnI up to the challenge of doing it herself?

AnI, moniopt, wanna *buy* my account? LOL! I'll happily take screen shots of my account. :p

Bold emphasis above by me.

Please read this part of Ani's post again:


I've been advised that, for those who did not receive payments and have kept records or screenshots of their accounts, there is a possibility where you can elect a representative and have them purchase your debt (by deferred payment) whereupon they would be able to file suit for a much larger amount.

Again, bold emphasis by me.

Interesting concept, purchasing debt by deferred payment. I believe that cybertongue had 36 complaints that she took with her on her trip through Linder's home town. 36 (maybe more) x $200.00 (?) average due = $7,200.. hmmm, not small potatoes.

[freecashspace]

How silly does that sound? Who in their right mind would be stupid enough to give people money that is owed to them by someone else, and then chance it by thinking they will get it back by sueing someone they have no connection to whatsoever?
Who in their right mind would start a business and promise to pay people within 30 days, and then not pay them for nearly 2 years?

How silly does it sound when people support and defend the kind of person who'd do something like that?

I guess it takes all kinds.

Cheers,

Wil

[bulldog10]

down to 2,152 members

[moniopt]

AnI, moniopt, wanna *buy* my account? LOL! I'll happily take screen shots of my account. :p


When you stop being a supporter and an administrator for those that knowingly steal from other people, where they soon after will surely find a way to rip you off (as if they aren't doing it now with the wait right?) too...then talk to me... :p

[BobbiePolk]

Funny, that isn't how you posted it in the first place, and then some how that post just disappeared somehow..... but I got to copy it before it disappeared.
What happened to the original one that you posted?



When you stop being a supporter an administrator to those that knowingly steal from other people ...then talk to me...otherwise your offer is meaningless, and as far as I'm concerned, a defendant to any lawsuit that involves AYS. :p

[Tmarie99]

Bobbie, my guess is "delete" was used. ;)

[moniopt]

Funny, that isn't how you posted it in the first place, and then some how that post just disappeared somehow..... but I got to copy it before it disappeared.
What happened to the original one that you posted?

I deleted it because I felt a part of what I said or how I said it was inappropiate for public view. Glad you saw it though. :)

[BobbiePolk]

Ok, my ignorance, I wasn't aware we could delete our own posts, but now see that we can. :)

[Dawn Michelle]

I see you don't have anyone offering to buy your account BobbiePolk. I didn't think you would and I doubt anyone else will either. They'd have to be crazy to do that. :laugh:

[asutony]

I see you don't have anyone offering to buy your account BobbiePolk. I didn't think you would and I doubt anyone else will either. They'd have to be crazy to do that. :laugh:

Didn't take long for the supporters to begin attacking. Why don't you just stay away and allow us to discuss the ays theives? You don't like any of the post but you keep reading and responding. I would really like to point out that they keep deleting members that are owed money and replacing them with new members that are not owed any money. Their paper debt should really be getting low by now. I doute there are 1000 members now that are still owed money now that 1000's being owed have been deleted.

[Dawn Michelle]

I'm not attacking the idea just being realistic. I've heard of people doing this with lottery earnings or insurance money people have been awarded because they have a guarantee of getting the money. But I seriously doubt they'd take a chance on ptr money they have no guarantee of receiving.

[AnI4AnI]

ANNOUNCEMENT:

Anyone with screenshots (undoctored) or any other evidence of debt owed, proof of membership, etc., should contact me via PM here at this forum by September 15th, 2005.

The first step is to gather our evidence. Please assist in this effort by getting the word out to as many current or ex-members as possible.

Reminder: This is only an "information-gathering" phase and does not imply further action unless and until appropriate legal counsel accepts the claim on our behalf.

Thank you.

[moniopt]

I was just gathering some of the AYS documentation I saved back when I was still a member. This is a response to the Sharonator on a decision she made that I felt was based on however she felt at the time. Another day it could have been different the way that board went.

This was around August 2004.

Just wondering if these types of decisions are made on a day-by-day basis, depending on how one feels, or if there are guidelines we don't know about used to make these decisions.

For someone to be allowed special consideration and others not based on the same factors would raise some questions if it can happen. Yes, I would like to know the rules of the game in order to make my decisions accordingly. Can I, or anyone for that matter, be denied such special consideration based on posts or looking for answers that may not be popular, while others who have less inactivity are not denied because they are quiet?? Can this happen?

Seems to me that if special considerations are part of the equation in this program, then it should be mentioned and clarified in the TOS. At least I would think it would be in the programs interest to do so to avoid problems. My opinion based on my knowledge in the business world anyway. {END}

Boy do I know the answer to that one now… http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/moniopt/rotflol.gif

[asutony]

Has anyone seen payout information in the last 2 months?

[investkid]

Has anyone seen payout information in the last 2 months?

Same old, same old. They're still paying December 2003 payout requests.

[freecashspace]

Same old, same old. They're still paying December 2003 payout requests.
Seriously???

Weren't they down to just 29 payments pending way back in June?

And they had 80 payments pending at the beginning of the year. So in 9 months they haven't managed to pay 80 people who requested payment nearly two years ago.

That's just insane.

Cheers,

Wil

[moniopt]

That's just insane.


It’s more like immoral, scandalous, criminal, disgraceful, corrupt, crooked, wrong………

[investkid]

29 in June 2005?

Still almost the same number of payments to go. Hasn't moved down much so far. Just a few payments done (or accounts deleted, depends).

At the rythm AYS pays, December 2003 payouts won't be finished by January 2006 either. Incredibly sad but true.


Seriously???

Weren't they down to just 29 payments pending way back in June?

And they had 80 payments pending at the beginning of the year. So in 9 months they haven't managed to pay 80 people who requested payment nearly two years ago.

That's just insane.

Cheers,

Wil

[moniopt]

I would like to know how many members are from the old (say before feb 2004) and how many are new (after feb 2004).

The Sharonator held off on her hit list and I saw it go up as high as 2400 or so just the other day. It is now 2077 as the Sharonator just recently implemented her hit list, but it still means many are still joining. At what point will there be a complete turnover (save those waiting for payment for Dec 2003 that should NOT go anywhere and do what it take to stay alive).

Got to be getting close to a complete turnover remembering that they were 27,292 members ARCHIVED (http://web.archive.org/web/20040211192327/http://www.allyousubmitters.com/pages/index.php) in Feb 2004

[BobbiePolk]

I would like to know how many members are from the old (say before feb 2004) and how many are new (after feb 2004).

The Sharonator held off on her hit list and I saw it go up as high as 2400 or so just the other day. It is now 2077 as the Sharonator just recently implemented her hit list, but it still means many are still joining. At what point will there be a complete turnover (save those waiting for payment for Dec 2003 that should NOT go anywhere and do the right thing to stay alive).

Got to be getting close to a complete turnover remembering that they were at 27,292 members ARCHIVE (http://web.archive.org/web/20040211192327/http://www.allyousubmitters.com/pages/index.php) in Feb 2004

It may just be me and this nasty head and chest cold I have, but what are you talking about as I didn't understand anything that was in the post I just quoted above.

[moniopt]

Lets see if anyone else is confused. BTW.. I edited my post from "do the right thing" to "do what it take to stay alive" as thousands were doing the right thing and still got deleted.

Let me give you a hint Bobbie. I am talking about the membership base.

[AnI4AnI]

I'd be more interested in seeing the actual payout lists from the payment processors and bank(s), then comparing it to the waiting list. That's another reason we need to urge members to file as many complaints to as many agenies as possible. Once the California District Attorney has enough complaints, for instance, they will hopefully initiate an audit, which I imagine would be mighty revealing.

[BobbiePolk]

Lets see if anyone else is confused. BTW.. I edited my post from "do the right thing" to "do what it take to stay alive" as thousands were doing the right thing and still got deleted.

Let me give you a hint Bobbie. I am talking about the membership base.

LOL! Ok, for some reason, I was having a difficult time understanding anything for the past few days. I am readjusting to some new meds, but that is a whole other story. :(
At anyrate, thanks for clarifying that for me.

[BobbiePolk]

I'd be more interested in seeing the actual payout lists from the payment processors and bank(s), then comparing it to the waiting list. That's another reason we need to urge members to file as many complaints to as many agenies as possible. Once the California District Attorney has enough complaints, for instance, they will hopefully initiate an audit, which I imagine would be mighty revealing.


Then again, it may not be as revealing as you would think.

[AnI4AnI]

Most rational minds would have to seriously question your observation, Bobbie. You see, if there are people who have spent months mercilessly berating, attacking and arguing with members who've had legitimate gripes against a program that deliberately scammed them, and these people were not compensated in any way, shape or form such as advanced payouts, then those people are WAY more foolish than they originally appeared to be. And that's the "netiquette" way of putting it.

That's why I don't trust you, Linder, Sharon or any one else closely affiliated with the site. I'd much prefer to see the questions raised by an independent auditor.

[BobbiePolk]

Most rational minds would have to seriously question your observation, Bobbie. You see, if there are people who have spent months mercilessly berating, attacking and arguing with members who've had legitimate gripes against a program that deliberately scammed them, and these people were not compensated in any way, shape or form such as advanced payouts, then those people are WAY more foolish than they originally appeared to be. And that's the "netiquette" way of putting it.

That's why I don't trust you, Linder, Sharon or any one else closely affiliated with the site. I'd much prefer to see the questions raised by an independent auditor.

I have a rational mind. Sometimes it gets foggy at times, but I generally attribute that to those pesky brain tumors I have..LOL! No, not wanting a pity party, just stating the facts.
At any rate. I can see the rational behind people wanting an independant auditor. I can't say that I blame them.
I for one don't need to see anything. Although curious, it isn't needed, at least not for me.
I rather don't care who trusts me or not. That is why no matter where I am on the net, I use my name, my real name. I am Bobbie Polk, and I don't care who knows it, who likes me or who doesn't. I don't try to hide, and I don't try to coddle anyone. If I have something to say, I will say it. If it would cause me to get an account deleted somewhere, so be it, just shows how petty a PO can be, but then again, that all depends on what I am saying also. If it isn't within reason, then I guess I can see an account somewhere getting deleted. Then again, I don't have to worry about that much, as I tend to respect the PO's of the sites I am in, and if I have a problem with them, I leave. Plain and simple. I don't go around bashing them. I have been burnt by several programs, some of which owed me a lot of money. They closed up shop and disappeared in cyberspace. Am I out there trying crying to any and everyone that will take pity on me and pretend to listen to me? No, I have more self respect than that. That's the beauty of that unsub button.
This is after all, PTR, NOT A JOB, we are not CONTRACTORS, we did NOT have an interview to be HIRED by anyone. WE clicked an agree button, and started clicking away.

Back to AYS. I think the whole dang world knows AYS is behind in payouts. Hell, I am surprised it hasn't made the front page news by now. What I find kinda funny, a lot of those highly sustainable sites that loved to bash AYS are now finding themselves far behind in payments, and shoot, some of them have even closed the doors. Guess they didn't have a good head for buisness the way they thought they did, now did they?
At least Linder didn't run away. Yea, the memberbase has dropped drastically, and ya know why? People tired of waiting on payment....can't blame them. Others, not bothering to log in and keep their accounts active.
That is the fault of the member, not the fault of the AYS admin.
One day AYS will build itself back up, and I will be glad that I stuck through it all as a supportive member, and one day, when my March payment comes up, I will be paid. Guess it all comes down on a matter of trust and faith. Some of us have it, and some of us don't. Until the day that the Admin of AYS does something to me, that destroys that faith, I will continue to be faithful to them.

[moniopt]

and one day, when my March payment comes up, I will be paid.

You mean, "and one year", don't you?

They're not finished with Dec 2003 payouts yet. If Investkid's projection is right, they won't be finished with that until 2006. If January, February and March follows suit, you won't see a payment until 2015 give or take a few years depending on when you requested payment in March...

I doubt they will be around that long...

[AnI4AnI]

Advocating for the rights of members isn't exactly "running around bashing them [POs] to people who "pretend" to listen" nor is it a fun job. I've risked many of my accounts because I had the good sense and decency to confront con artists instead of frantically bailing water while the ship went down.

I feel strongly about the fact that there are those who refuse to acknowledge wrongdoing and instead, choose to blame the victims, no matter how many there are or how legitimate the complaints are. That isn't exclusive to this dilemna. It's a part me and my convictions in everyday life as well. I detest oppression and exploitation, whether it's slave labor in obscure countries or deliberately burning acres and acres of rain forests, destroying entire ecosystems for corporate gain, all the way down to slapping a child on the face for misbehaving.

It's your perogative to operate the way you see fit, Bobbie. It's your perogative to remain loyal to this program if that's what you want to do Edited. I'm proud of the position I've taken over the years, for many causes, not just here in this industry, and no one else's agenda will ever intefere with me advocating for the victims.

[investkid]

(...) One day AYS will build itself back up, and I will be glad that I stuck through it all as a supportive member, and one day, when my March payment comes up, I will be paid. Guess it all comes down on a matter of trust and faith. Some of us have it, and some of us don't. Until the day that the Admin of AYS does something to me, that destroys that faith, I will continue to be faithful to them.

AYS will build itself back up doing what?

Allowing redemption for point ads and point PTCs?
Affiliate program?
Auction site?
Online store?
Lowering ad click value?
Randomizer?
Allowing redemption for a discount on purchases at an affiliate online store?

They've been there, they've done that and they're still paying December 2003. Some will say they've tried. Well, bottom line is IT IS NOT WORKING.

Total members today: 2,069

[asutony]

If they somehow build themselves up it will be on the backs of the thousands of people that they unfairly deleted while owing them money. They will never be anything but a scam.

[moniopt]

If they somehow build themselves up it will be on the backs of the thousands of people that they unfairly deleted while owing them money. They will never be anything but a scam.

EXACTLY RIGHT!

[AnI4AnI]

People tired of waiting on payment....can't blame them. Others, not bothering to log in and keep their accounts active.
That is the fault of the member, not the fault of the AYS admin.


Sorry, couldn't let this go. You are wrong, just as your co-supporters have been wrong in the past about this issue. IF Ays paid people in a reasonable amount of time after they requested, (generally 30 days is an acceptable amount of time), then members would not have been trapped in payout limbo. That is the fault of AYS, not the members. It is totally outraegous, unreasonable and selfish to expect people to jump through hoops in order to receive what's due. It's ridiculous and shameful how they've handled this whole thing and if they ever do begin to acquire hundreds of new, unsuspecting members, you better believe I, for one, will be right here to alert them about this scam.

[bellestraker]

Sorry, couldn't let this go. You are wrong, just as your co-supporters have been wrong in the past about this issue. IF Ays paid people in a reasonable amount of time after they requested, (generally 30 days is an acceptable amount of time), then members would not have been trapped in payout limbo. That is the fault of AYS, not the members. It is totally outraegous, unreasonable and selfish to expect people to jump through hoops in order to receive what's due. It's ridiculous and shameful how they've handled this whole thing and if they ever do begin to acquire hundreds of new, unsuspecting members, you better believe I, for one, will be right here to alert them about this scam.


Generally speaking ( In other words..NOT only about ays)

Why is it different for one site to enforce an inactivity tos and not another.

Does it only become a bad tos if the site is behind?

I can competely understand and have always agreed that the inactivity rule sux if the site is behind and i have seen other sites who allow members to go inactive while waiting ( which I think is a good thing) but..I do not understand why the rule is good or.bad only in certain condiitons.

It may be understandable why people do not want to remain active but if there is a good enough reaosn for the rule in the first place..who is to say that it has to be put on hold...and at what stage.

What amount late..3 months, six months??2 years?

Not being argumentative..AND not explaining it right but hopefully you will understand what I mean.

Belle

[asutony]

It is not acceptable for one over another. But when a site is 2 years behind and deletes in the neighborhood of 30000 members in about 3 weeks something is rotten in denmark.

[AnI4AnI]

It doesn't matter whether you're trying to be argumentative or not, Belle Edited. None of that matters. The point is, Bobbie Polk made a statement regarding AYS members and AYS admin, and I responded regarding AYS. If you are bothered by the issue of what should be considered acceptable activity requirements for all PTR sites then we could start another thread and discuss that overall issue... but in this instance, it was directly related to this particular program.

[bellestraker]

Asutony.

You would think there is enough without altering the facts to make it more.

30,000 in 3 weeeks..Gotta admit..... it sounds better than reality.

Have a good one

Belle



Not bothered at all ani...and not surprised either.I just thought you might surprise me and actually have something to say that didnt fit in with any agenda.

As usual..you couch your responses in ..as you call "netiquette" but expect everyone else to respond with politeness.
Who knows..it worked before..It just may work again.

No surprise today.

Is it nice to be back??

Have a good one

Belle

[qcp]

AYS?

What a joke!

Yall still talking about this defunct site?

wake up and smell the roses!A scam artist will not pay you.Plain and simple.

Q

[BobbiePolk]

AYS?

What a joke!

Yall still talking about this defunct site?

wake up and smell the roses!A scam artist will not pay you.Plain and simple.

Q

And that would be your opinion. :)

[asutony]

So what do you claim the time frame was?????????????



Asutony.

You would think there is enough without altering the facts to make it more.

30,000 in 3 weeeks..Gotta admit..... it sounds better than reality.

Have a good one

Belle



Not bothered at all ani...and not surprised either.I just thought you might surprise me and actually have something to say that didnt fit in with any agenda.

As usual..you couch your responses in ..as you call "netiquette" but expect everyone else to respond with politeness.
Who knows..it worked before..It just may work again.

No surprise today.

Is it nice to be back??

Have a good one

Belle

[Mallerie]

So what do you claim the time frame was?????????????

lol anyone thats a member of the forum and program can easily get their trusty calcylator and go add up the inactives, people usig the same puter or having more than one accout and people using cheat software and see its way longer than 3 weeks.

i mean seriously with as far behind in payouts as things are why would someone have to make up a lie? thngs arent bad enough already? Or is it like belle said, "30,000 in 3 weeeks..Gotta admit..... it sounds better than reality"

yeh, fiction is much more fun and dramatic than reality!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Dawn Michelle]

The deletions have been over a lot longer time period than three weeks. But personally I think a program that is way behind in payments shouldn't delete members that have been waiting a long time for payment out of courtesy to them. Because the members are continuing to participate in and support the program while waiting for their payments.

[investkid]

The deletions have been over a lot longer time period than three weeks. But personally I think a program that is way behind in payments shouldn't delete members that have been waiting a long time for payment out of courtesy to them. Because the members are continuing to participate in and support the program while waiting for their payments.
I'm keeping this post for posterity. Thanks for understanding about inactivity levels vs payout delays.

Got to warn you though, this is the first step to forum deletion by AYS for "forum abuse". You should reread Lil Crusader posts. They were even milder than yours.

The following link takes you to a thread started last year. It states on the first post "membership shrink by 24,000 in 3 months". And that was never disputed.

Have fun reading if you will:
http://www.gptboycott.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6773

[asutony]

If I remember correctly Lil Crusader was just banned from their forum not kicked out of the program. I was banned at about the same time. I'm not sure she ever clicked enough to even reach payout.

[AnI4AnI]

Belle, your insults directed at me detract from the issues...as usual. Do you think you could take the focus off of me for a moment to discuss what your point was regarding activity guidelines?

[Tmarie99]

I do NOT believe that you people haven't moved on and gotten lives. It looks like you've accomplished what you wanted, you destroyed AYS, is gloating part of your adult actions???
Move on, get lives, you'll feel better.

[BobbiePolk]

I do NOT believe that you people haven't moved on and gotten lives. It looks like you've accomplished what you wanted, you destroyed AYS, is gloating part of your adult actions???
Move on, get lives, you'll feel better.

Oh, I don't think they have destroyed AYS in the least.
That just ain't gonna happen. :)

[moniopt]

you destroyed AYS,

WE destroyed it?? LOL

No Timarie, if anything, incompetence and unethical business practices are what will eventually lead to AYS’s full demise.

However, they are still pulling people in and continuing the con game and bamboozlement, and since I usually come here on my down times…I don’t mind continuing to remind everyone about the Edited that are running AYS every once in a while…

[investkid]

If I remember correctly Lil Crusader was just banned from their forum not kicked out of the program. I was banned at about the same time. I'm not sure she ever clicked enough to even reach payout.

Yep. That's what I posted. Lil Crusader was banned from AYS forum. I didn't mention the program. Lil would know if she still have an "active" account or not. I don't.

And TMarie, "we" didn't destroy anything, AYS program or forum. We didn't cause its closure did we? It's not closed yet to my knowledge. Get your facts straight before posting accusations.

And about moving on? May I suggest you follow your own advice. People learn more by example than by empty advice.

[AnI4AnI]

I wouldn't stop warning people even if they paid me the $230 they owe me so don't waste your keystrokes, TMarie.

Also, for the sake of newcomers to the industry and this forum, don't be misled by those who are themselves at fault for the wretched perpetuation of scams like this when they refuse to accept and acknowledge shoddy business practices and instead continue to enlist their empassioned pleas of tolerance. That type of behavior, in any situation, breeds and encourages further abuse as evidenced by the recent influx of scum-sites.

[bellestraker]

I wouldn't stop warning people even if they paid me the $230 they owe me so don't waste your keystrokes, TMarie.

Also, for the sake of newcomers to the industry and this forum, don't be misled by those who are themselves at fault for the wretched perpetuation of scams like this when they refuse to accept and acknowledge shoddy business practices and instead continue to enlist their empassioned pleas of tolerance. That type of behavior, in any situation, breeds and encourages further abuse as evidenced by the recent influx of scum-sites.


Do you really believe that if there had been no Ays posts..there would be no scam sites.

Of course that is another "easily dodgeable? statement by saying " well not as many"

I am, willing to put my poor old bippy on the line once more to bet that most of the scam sites have never heard of ays.
or that the members who joined have likely not heard or if they have..did not base any decision to join on anything to do with ays.


Or maybe members just read the exagerated statements and decided that all
complaints were of the same nature.( as opposed to most)

Investkid..Your post about Dawn saying that it is wrong to make anyone remain active while awaiting a long overdue payment has been said many times by many of the so called supporters but I guess it wasnt "heard".

btw..I never saw any of them deleted for it so I guess it takes much more than pointing out things you dont like..Or maybe its just the way its done.

Yes, I agree there have been instances of deletions which I thought were wrong.

A total of two.

IMO The number does not make the deletion any less wrong.



Have a good one

Belle

[asutony]

2 out of 30 some thousand, Edited.

[Mallerie]

2 out of 30 some thousand, Edited.

do you have acces to records to show that those others werent deleted for reasons? do you have proof to show that they were deleted for no reason at all? i dont either but im not going around making statements/implying wrongdoing either with those deeltions. why? because i have no proof any wrong doing was done. your trying to do nothing more than stir something up that you can't back up.

if other owners such as freebie are running cc scrips and have acces to recrods, then anyone else that runs it does to. yuo just assume and perport it as FACT.

if you want to know austony go do the work. get your caculater and go ad up the deletions and for what reasons and for what days in each month. it's not 3 weeks.

seems like othe rprograms that end up in trouble or with cheaters go belly up but a program that tries to work its problems gets its butt kicked daily. gee what a concept. kick harder so to make sure NO ONE ever gets paid again. :eyeroll:

[lil crusader]

If I remember correctly Lil Crusader was just banned from their forum not kicked out of the program. I was banned at about the same time. I'm not sure she ever clicked enough to even reach payout.

I was kind of surprised to see my name mentioned here, but since it was - I'll set the record straight, at least as far as my status is concerned: Tony is right - I was banned from their forum a long time ago, but for whatever reason, they never kicked me out of the program. (I have no clue why.)

And as far as I know, my account is still open -- although I would never consider wasting time and energy trying to reach payout. I'm still a long way from that point and that won't ever change. I do check in there occasionally just to see what kinds of ads are being run and how many of them they are, and I'll usually click on one just to keep from being deleted for inactivity.

Way back when I was booted from the forum and realized my account was still active, I promised myself that I'd never give them that excuse to close it. If it ever does get closed, it will be for something other than inactivity because that's something I can control.

[freecashspace]

This is after all, PTR, NOT A JOB, we are not CONTRACTORS, we did NOT have an interview to be HIRED by anyone. WE clicked an agree button, and started clicking away.It looks to me like Linder says you are a contractor.
Relationship of the Parties:

Member and the AYS PTR Program are independent contractors, and nothing in this Agreement creates any partnership, joint venture, agency, franchise, sales representative or employment relationship between Member and the AYS PTR Program or AYS.
Which one of you is lying and/or mistaken?

Cheers,

Wil

[AnI4AnI]

I am, willing to put my poor old bippy on the line once more to bet that most of the scam sites have never heard of ays.
or that the members who joined have likely not heard or if they have..did not base any decision to join on anything to do with ays.

Unfortunately, due to the nature of criminal activity, it's generally useless to try to find accurate data pertaining to a wrongdoer's influences but it would be interesting to hear opinions about whether or not people believe that tolerance, acceptance and defense impacts opportunists.

I happen to think such behavior sends wrong messages not only to existing program owners but also invites others with ill-intent to take advantage of a situation. If silence and complacency indicates consent, we can only imagine what influence cheerleading has.

[bellestraker]

2 out of 30 some thousand, Edited.


I said two that I feel ( and believe I know the reason for the deletion.).but then I am not privy to the inner workings of any site ( including ays) so unlike you I do not "wing it" with whatever will make the biggest splash.

If 30,000 ( or even a large portion of) were deleted for no reason it seems strange that it is only the same 4 or 5 who have been in here complaining for the past year.

Have a good one

Belle


lying/or mistaken.
Only in an ays thread would lying come before mistaken...or even enter into the mix where any reasonable person would assume at worst it was an error .

Gotta love it.

[AnI4AnI]

If 30,000 ( or even a large portion of) were deleted for no reason it seems strange that it is only the same 4 or 5 who have been in here complaining for the past year.

It's even more strange that the same 4 or 5 who defend the site would be in here for the past year, when apparently only a handful of people have actually recieved any money from the site in 2 years.

[Mallerie]

It's even more strange that the same 4 or 5 who defend the site would be in here for the past year, when apparently only a handful of people have actually recieved any money from the site in 2 years.

wht difference does it make if peple defend or not? all thats gonna happen is anyone that defends will get put through the ringer, called names, insultd, ridiculed for feeling the way they do.

i stopped because for the most part i honestly dont care how a choice few of you feel. i might stop in sometimes and look or make a post or two but theres no point of carrying on as you do.

any other prog owner could show up here with recods shwing why people were deleted form their program. it would be accepted as word. If ays did it, using the exact same recording moethod other cc script users used, youd call him a liar and say he "fixed' things.

its pretty clear that ays could pay out every single member what every single member is owned; past deleted and present; and it sill wouldnt be enough. these threads are nothing more than bash sessions full whatever a few of you want to put it in whether its true or not who cares right?


belle, you hit right on. :)

Mal

[asutony]

[QUOTE=Mallerie

its pretty clear that ays could pay out every single member what every single member is owned; past deleted and present; and it sill wouldnt be enough. these threads are nothing more than bash sessions full whatever a few of you want to put it in whether its true or not who cares right?

Mal[/QUOTE]


Actually paying everyone would make it right but we know that will never happen.

[bellestraker]

edited because I asked myself why bother..before I got the send button clicked.

[bellestraker]

imagine [/B]what influence cheerleading has.


Imagination is exactly what most ays threads are based on.

And being as how you quoted me..I wonder if you would like to show any posts where I am prommoting joining ays??

My posts are and have been based "against" the twisted "facts" given as well as the inuendo,lies and general flexing of many posts.

So I guess it is cheerleading of a sort.,.Cheerleading against false claims (often done) in order to self promote a platform or position.


btw..Have you ever heard of the wolfe that cried foul once too often.
That kinda fits in with the ays discussions too.

People do tend to turn a deaf ear when they hear the same thing over and over ( from either side)

Have a good one.

Belle

[Mallerie]

Actually paying everyone would make it right but we know that will never happen.

you stil dont know and cannot prove that a) 30,000 were deleted in 3 weeks and b) that everyone deleted followed the rules to teh letter.. meaning, that none of 'em used cheatware, same pcs or went inactive.

if you can show me that 30,000 were deleted unjustly, i'll unsubscribe right this minute.

and because of this

I wouldn't stop warning people even if they paid me the $230 they owe me so don't waste your keystrokes, TMarie.



which i think says loud and clear that nothing will ever be enough for some people.

Edited

almost every site out there paid at one time. only different between programs like ays, betty bucks, pennies by email etc is that they still stick around and work on getting members paid unlike so many others that are gone. they may all be gone too, who knows. i guess i was taught that effort does mean something and when the going gets tough, giving it your best shot means a lot.

[moniopt]

{SNIP} is that they still stick around and work on getting members paid {SNIP}


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/moniopt/laughing.gif

AYS working on getting members paid!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/moniopt/rotflol.gif

They're still working on DEC 2003 payouts. They're spending more time finding ways to delete members then figuring out how to pay them.

No, Linder is building up a nice email list. He is even paying a dollar or so for every member members bring in if I read a post over there correctly. Even if he isn't paying for leads he is still adding to his email list and doing a very good job at it (even when people get deleted he still has the information). His priority isn't paying members or he wouldn't be so far behind. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/moniopt/crsafe.gif

[Mallerie]

AYS working on getting members paid!

They're still working on DEC 2003 payouts. They're spending more time finding ways to delete members then figuring out how to pay them.

No, Linder is building up a nice email list. He is even paying a dollar or so for every member members bring in if I read a post over there correctly. Even if he isn't paying for leads he is still adding to his email list and doing a very good job at it (even when people get deleted he still has the information). His priority isn't paying members or he wouldn't be so far behind. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/moniopt/crsafe.gif

i know what payouts theyre working on. that still means working on.

what do you mean pay for members adding to an email list? can you point it to me directly because i dont know waht youre referring to.

i dont know what your point is about email list anyawys. i use one email address for ays that i use for nothing else. i get no spam at all if thats what you were tryin gto get at.

saying someone is behind isnt exactly proof that someone isnt paying members or being a prioerity. there have been plenty of hot hot hot programs touted as oh so honest an loyal that are no longer in existence. many left without a single word, just up and left. apparently they didnt care to try the slightest.

what ways to delete members are being 'found'? are you saying that deletions are being done constantly that dont folow the terms? can you show me this or prove it please?


His priority isn't paying members or he wouldn't be so far behind.

how would you know this if yuo dont have access to records and data? there are plenty of other programs behind and some fall farther all the time does that automatically mean that theyre priority is not to pay members?

Or are these insinuations for ays only?

im sorry i still see no proof. to accuse you be needin' the proofage.

[moniopt]

I read about them paying members for bringing in new members over on their forum (or the site itself) if I remember correctly. I will look for it later or tomorrow or next week...lol

Doesn’t matter if they are or not as he still is adding to the member list, which creates an email list, which is big bucks. You ever get spam?

COM’ on Mallerie, wake up! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/moniopt/wakeup.gif

[Mallerie]

I read about them paying members for bringing in new members over on their forum (or the site itself) if I remember correctly. I will look for it later or tomorrow or next week...lol

Doesn’t matter if they are or not as he still is adding to the member list, which creates an email list, which is big bucks. You ever get spam?

COM’ on Mallerie, wake up! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/moniopt/wakeup.gif

do I get spam, yes. but to email address that ive used for bulletin borads. the email addy i use for ays i dont even use for anything else. as i think i clearly stated in my last post i dont get spam to that address. there is it again in case you didnt see it the first time

so it appears im very awake, thank u very much. imo i think you just hate ays and youll say anything you want, true or not. as freebie fount out the hard way, many times truth plays a very small part in members hate stories/complaints.

im sorry but after all the complaints received here about freebie and she disproved them all i dont believe too much. she was able to prove them false are yuo saying proof positive not one other po could do that either? or are these rules just for programs you dont like?

[moniopt]

Whatever Mallerie, you're not going to convince me that AYS is anything but a SCAM. The facts have built up over the years. And no, I am not going to waste my time going back and posting them for you(or anybody). If you don't see it by now, then there is no hope you will see at all unless you beccome one of the thousands of AYS members that have been RIPPED OFF.

So as Belle would say,

Have a good one! :)

[bellestraker]

And therein.( The above couple posts) lies the crux of the entire thing.

Anyone can say anything they want..the more outrageous..the better. and if asked for proof...well the response is almost always.."Its not important enough for me to go wade through posts to find it".

IN one thread..in just the past few posts we have one person saying that ays deleted 30,000 people in three weeks. UNTRUE and not even reasonable to expect anyone to believe it.

Then as proof we are directed to a thread started by "ptrisover" LOL who was notorious for outrageous claims ( read his posts) and we are told.." No-one disputed it"

Did anyone ever bother to dispute anything ptrisover said..I think not.( Other than a gptb mod who tried to disprove that I was a planted po from a different country than I claimed).Yes..that was another case of ptrisover's "uncovering the "facts".

What a joke.

Then we have another person claiming ays is paying $1.00 a name for email addresses to sell for "big bucks".

Now with this same little group letting us know daily that ays is not just behind..VERY behind..but that they do not pay and are a scam.

Yet they have no problem believing that ays is paying an outrageous amount for email addresses.

No..it doesnt take a "supporter" to come in here and respond..It only takes a desire to stop the exageration,inuendo's and flat out lies which flow through these threads like kickapoo joy juice at a hobo bazaar.

Is there not enough which is legitimate..or does everyone just realize that no one really cares so you have to juice it up a bit to keep the audience.

Have a good one

Belle

[freecashspace]

any other prog owner could show up here with recods shwing why people were deleted form their program. it would be accepted as word. If ays did it, using the exact same recording moethod other cc script users used, youd call him a liar and say he "fixed' things.That's what happens when a PO gets a reputation as a liar.

Many people tend not to believe liars, even on the odd occasion they're telling the truth.

Many people tend not to believe lying liars. That's generally a good thing. When people believe the lies that lying liars tell, it often causes big problems for them. For the believers, I mean. Well, I guess it could cause big problems for the liars, too. But who cares? Liars deserve the problems their lies cause them, don't you think?

Cheers,

Wil

[AnI4AnI]

If you don't see it by now, then there is no hope you will see at all unless you beccome one of the thousands of AYS members that have been RIPPED OFF.


If they've been waiting for payment for more than 3o days then they ARE one of the thousands of members that ays ripped off...(I'll let the reader finish the thought). :)

[moniopt]

Anyone can say anything they want..the more outrageous..the better. and if asked for proof...well the response is almost always.."Its not important enough for me to go wade through posts to find it".


The proof has been out there for some time. YOU just don’t want to see it. As far as “saying anything they want”

After years of seeing and reading about AYS, which includes my personal dealings, I have come up with some of my own conclusions. He certainly isn’t making it a point to pay members

Linder use to hold contests or give away products if people would fill out a form. This is one method marketers use to create email lists. I also posted proof which I deleted (as I don’t want to advertise for AYS as people are sometimes stupid and would do anything to make a buck) about incentives to bring in leads posted on there forum. Leads are what make up email lists. My educated guess (as a marketer on the net myself and with experience with online sales) tells me he is building one hell of an email list. What he does with it is a guess but I have my strong suspicions.

This is not outrageous at all. It’s a pretty good assumption and an educated one at that.

And belle, I wouldn’t go accusing others about “saying anything they want”, as you are the best at it at times.

Bottom line is AYS RIPPED OFF THOUSANDS and is WAYYYY LATE IN PAYMENTS (still paying DEC 2003)

So along with the above FACT and other facts that are out there…I can only conclude that AYS IS A SCAM!

I got to get ready and catch a train....

[Dawn Michelle]

I go to AYS forum every day and I don't remember ever seeing anything about
paying members for bringing in new members. I'd like to see the post about it too.

[Mallerie]

Whatever Mallerie, you're not going to convince me that AYS is anything but a SCAM. The facts have built up over the years. And no, I am not going to waste my time going back and posting them for you(or anybody). If you don't see it by now, then there is no hope you will see at all unless you beccome one of the thousands of AYS members that have been RIPPED OFF.

So as Belle would say,

Have a good one! :)


and we get back to the 'whatever' response. as ani is so fond of saying when someone says 'whatever' to her, "typical!" lol

i dont care to convince you of anything, i was asking for proof of your grand statements. there is none typically known as the 'i dont have time or desire' or 'i cant be bothered' game when one makes assucations but cant back anythnig up. so very very convenient. why dont you just say what it really is that you dont have access to the forum so you cant show anything?

if you can "waiste" your time saying it, why cant you "waiste" it backing it up?

i still do not see where so many were deleted in 3 weeks and 99% were deleted unjustly.

it boils down to you can say whatever you want because yuo have a grudge and you dont give a whit if its true or not.

you want to talk about liars? ive seen tons more member liairs than i ever have po liars.

the only fact you stated is that ays is way behind on payouts. gee, thats not news!

all your 'facts' - term used VERY loosly - is exactly as you said you came up with your own conclutions. i prefer to think of them as accusations and implications of wrongdoing. when asked to back them up, you cant.

i always thought it was up to the accuser to do the proving. am i wrong or did that change recently?

none of you can prove that linder isnt trying to pay people and none of you can prove that everone deleted was deleted wrongly but you sure can flap your lips about it. thats all i was asking if you can porpose it as FACT, back it up.

as per usual...'whatever'.


Linder use to hold contests or give away products if people would fill out a form. This is one method marketers use to create email lists. I also posted proof which I deleted (as I don’t want to advertise for AYS as people are sometimes stupid and would do anything to make a buck) about incentives to bring in leads posted on there forum. Leads are what make up email lists. My educated guess (as a marketer on the net myself and with experience with online sales) tells me he is building one hell of an email list. What he does with it is a guess but I have my strong suspicions.

This is not outrageous at all. It’s a pretty good assumption and an educated one at that.



ive been a member since fall of '03 i think and i never was asked to fill out anything. yuor 'educated' guess leaves much to be desired if thats all your basing it on and hasnt been done in almost 2 years.

'used to' means past, ago. doesnt mean now or even recently. i will reiterate one moer time that i use an email address for ays and ays only and i get no spam. So if my email addy really was sold that was pretty much a waiste lol. but again something else you just assume and cant prove.

your 'educated guess' has now become one great big assumption and suspcisions but yet you never said that in your first post. now some actual truth is posted; assumptions and suspcisions but not FACTS. got it, thansk.


after watching a few of you after all this time i have my own suspicions; that you say whatever you feel like saying. this is the internet, whats gonna happen to ya? ya gonna get in trouble? heck no! id love to see some of you write like this for actual publications. write what you want, dont prove anything. whatcha think would happen then? but you dont have that little problem of backing up and proving here on the internet do ya, no, not really. a few of you dont give a whack WHAT you say because this is one place it cant come back to bite you hard in the rear. theres no consequences if you lie or twist things or make up stories. you get your 'revenge'. thats ALL that matters. your revenge. Assumptions and suspicions and inneundo can and do, tons of damage and that was the entire point all along. to do the damage and get the revenge. yall arent getting paid and by god youll be darned if anyone ELSE will get paid either. (and im sorry the way a few of you speak and deal here really shows you all arent all that innocent an i aint buyin the 'but i did nothing wrong' defense. a few of you didnt just whip up the name calling, deflecting, talk-down-your-nose-at-me attutides for MY benefit.)

if these threads were absolutely honestly nothing more than presenting facts, theyd be about a half a page long. the rabbel rousing the name calling the put downs the condesceding attutides the outrihgt lies the grand assumptions - wiuthout all that stuff just becomes another boring thread. just cant have that now, huh? :hehe:

[AnI4AnI]

Mallerie, do you honestly believe if there were no forums then ays would be caught up on payouts? How do you think they would be able to pay if they were grossly underselling ads for so long, letting members accounts accumulate earnings that they had no money to cover? You don't see that no matter what happened in the forums, they were the ones responsible for their own problems?

You know, it's one thing to defend something you believe in no matter what but this is just crazy when these arguments, observations and conclusions have no basis in reality, when there is no logic or reason applied. Many of you have bought into all the other garbage they spewed out, so it's no wonder you'd buy into their excuse that it's all our fault but here's something you might ask yourself:

Who's fault was it when Linder didn't pay his rent and was taken to court by landlords twice...that's two seperate times? Was that our fault or does it not indicate a history of non-compliance with financial obligations? You need to think about that because being taken to court for non-payment of rent is a long process and landlords don't particularly enjoy having to do things like that...most of the time it's a last-ditch effort to try to procure debts owed and many times, even if the tenant loses, they don't honor the judgement so then it's another process to collect the debt.

We don't have to twist and distort anything or make up lies, either. That's why we can write these things in the forums..because they're true. It also doesn't matter who we are...the issues are about ays, not us. I could be the worst person on the face of the earth but the fact remains that they owe me money.

I think your time would be better spent asking questions and trying to get answers from them, not plastering emotional pleas and outbursts in the forums. Many of you shrink back in horror when something like that is suggested, saying, "But we don't have any information about the inner workings...." yet you blindly defend them to the point where you've effectively destroyed your own credibility. One would think if you're going to put your own names and reputations on the line then you'd at least have a partial knowledge of the facts but you can't provide anything at all as a logical basis for your arguments....and arguments aren't won based on emotion.

[BobbiePolk]

We don't have to twist and distort anything or make up lies, either. That's why we can write these things in the forums..because they're true. It also doesn't matter who we are...the issues are about ays, not us. I could be the worst person on the face of the earth but the fact remains that they owe me money.



Oh, but you don't see Linder hiding under different names because he didn't want to face those he owes money to.
If I am thinking straight, Linder gave you an EARLY payout in front of others when you needed it, as did Mike from Mikes get paid to read, as well as those from GPF. Did you repay those people the money you OWE them? No! You changed your forum names, and then started saying how they were GIFTS not LOANS.
So, before you go around screaming that someone owes you money, maybe you should pay your own debts first, as there is something seriously wrong with the picture there. A little hypocritical if you ask me.

[pietro]

You say you can post these things because they are true.

Please show me some proof where But when a site is 2 years behind and deletes in the neighborhood of 30000 members in about 3 weeks something is rotten in denmark. is the truth.

Please show me where It's even more strange that the same 4 or 5 who defend the site would be in here for the past year, when apparently only a handful of people have actually recieved any money from the site in 2 years. is absolutely proven.

Please show me proof that They're spending more time finding ways to delete members then figuring out how to pay them. or that He is even paying a dollar or so for every member members bring in if I read a post over there correctly.

I joined this program, as I did Beehive, to see for myself the reason for the vitriole that is spilled from both the defenders and the opposers. I have found none of the above. Granted they are far behind, granted they have paid only a few this year, but it is far more than "a handful" in two years. There is no post where there is any kind of hint that remuneration will be made other than the suggestion of changing their downline option from a percentage to a one time payment. There is no "form" being sent out for people to be tricked out of their e-mail address unless you refer to the contests run by MEMBERS, in which the owner took no active part except to allow prizes of free advertising.

It is one thing to repeat ad nauseum that you are owed money and you think the program is a scam. It is another to attack, on a personal level, those who choose, foolishly perhaps, to defend the program OR those who choose to continue this selfrighteous crusade to alert newbies to the folly of joining this program.

However, I do believe that when you begin to post lies and exaggerations about the owner himself or his assistant, and when you attack the people who post either in an offensive stance or a defensive stance, you have crossed a point that a reasonable moderator should step in.

It is impossible to align with either "side" in this matter because each have proven capable of twisting words around to justify their hatred, anger and even antipathy toward the other. There are good and bad points on both sides, however those who could be helped the most are going to avoid the situation in its entirety because they will not wish to associate with individuals who have obvious axes to grind. You've already seen a couple of cases where people actually JOINED the program because of the caustic remarks being spewed here. Would it not be far more sane and reasonable to state your case and then walk away until asked to speak again?

This forum is supposed to be helping new people learn about the good and the bad of the Paid to Read read community. It's quite sad actually that you few on both sides have become oblivious to the fact that your attacks, rebuttals and protests are proving nothing. They are simply degenerating, once again, into a flame war where nothing is accomplished but to make you all look quite sad.

[moniopt]

Ahhh Pietro (or is it Linder?), you’re back! :)

Dawn: Just read the description of all the forums made viewable to the public. It was described as a “lead”. Maybe I was mistaken about it being members. Not sure what it is but it is described as a “lead”. Something that can be added to an email list along with all the members(deleted or not). Really doesn’t matter. AYS IS A SCAM!


Man, I never seen so much obvious spin then what I see from AYS and a few of their supporters.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/moniopt/swinghead.gif

[asutony]

I apologize, my time frame was off a bit. In less than 6 months time period they went from about 35000 members to less than 5000 and now are down to almost 2000. Still the first batch deleted happened rather quickly but I can't find the screen prints that showed the time period. Suffice it to say that a program that was supposed swept clean of cheaters when they stopped paying for 2 months should not have 30000 cheaters left. I would be very interested in seeing how many they really still had in the payout queue now. They are consistantly deleting 100-200 members and then holding the line until 100-200 new members join.

[Josh]

You made some good points, Pietro.

Unfortunately, it was deemed that decision of the management at the time to close the previous thread did not bring sufficient "conclusion," so here we are again.

It is one thing to state your case, however you view the situation; it is another to beat a dead horse.

Again, it is one thing to explain your thoughts, with both respect and well-thought out points, while it is another to simply repeat the same things, mostly fallacies, and avoid even a base sense of decency.

As much as cheating webmasters appall me, some of the words uttered in this thread make me feel even more nauseated. Do the actions of a few have such an effect to stir up this much contempt in so many?

If you really believe that your view is accurate, then isn't there sufficient reasoning behind it without having to resort to attacks and words of ridicule and incitement, however thinly-veiled they may be?

You'll attract more flies with with honey than you will with vinegar.

You'll win more friends with your ears than you will with your mouth.

Wouldn't it be more helpful to the situation if you were willing to assist those who might need it?

I've chosen to stay out of this thread other than at the very beginning, because I see it serving no good purpose, but at this point in time, it is too far out of hand for me to be silent.

Regards,
Josh

[lil crusader]

This might not be a really popular post, but oh well....

Can anybody really explain what the point of this thread is and why it continues to go on and on and on and on and on and on....

I pretty much stopped reading in here long ago, but after finding out my name had been brought up and responding to that, I did do a little skimming and 3 things seem obvious:

1. The same people are still supporting AYS.
2. The same people are still criticizing AYS.
3. AYS is still working on December 2003 payouts.

So it's clear that despite countless pages of saying the same things over and over again - absolutely nothing has changed. And I think everybody posting in here is smart enough to know that at this stage in the game, nothing will change in the future. It's not like the AYS supporters are suddenly going to turn into critics - and the AYS critics aren't going to suddenly turn into supporters. And obviously the payout situation isn't going to somehow miraculously change at this late date.

So what's the point?

[moniopt]

Wow, I just noticed more complaints have been added to the boycott page (link in my signature). Most recent one today showing the same ole pattern. Member requested payout, member gets deleted.

[lil crusader]

Wow, I just noticed more complaints have been added to the boycott page (link in my signature). Most recent one today showing the same ole pattern. Member requested payout, member gets deleted.

Am I missing something -- using your link, the most recent complaint I saw is dated March 2005.

[Josh]

Am I missing something -- using your link, the most recent complaint I saw is dated March 2005.


It's out of order. :p

It goes from new, to old, to newer. :)

[Mallerie]

Mallerie, do you honestly believe if there were no forums then ays would be caught up on payouts? How do you think they would be able to pay if they were grossly underselling ads for so long, letting members accounts accumulate earnings that they had no money to cover? You don't see that no matter what happened in the forums, they were the ones responsible for their own problems?

You know, it's one thing to defend something you believe in no matter what but this is just crazy when these arguments, observations and conclusions have no basis in reality, when there is no logic or reason applied. Many of you have bought into all the other garbage they spewed out, so it's no wonder you'd buy into their excuse that it's all our fault but here's something you might ask yourself:

Who's fault was it when Linder didn't pay his rent and was taken to court by landlords twice...that's two seperate times? Was that our fault or does it not indicate a history of non-compliance with financial obligations? You need to think about that because being taken to court for non-payment of rent is a long process and landlords don't particularly enjoy having to do things like that...most of the time it's a last-ditch effort to try to procure debts owed and many times, even if the tenant loses, they don't honor the judgement so then it's another process to collect the debt.

We don't have to twist and distort anything or make up lies, either. That's why we can write these things in the forums..because they're true. It also doesn't matter who we are...the issues are about ays, not us. I could be the worst person on the face of the earth but the fact remains that they owe me money.

I think your time would be better spent asking questions and trying to get answers from them, not plastering emotional pleas and outbursts in the forums. Many of you shrink back in horror when something like that is suggested, saying, "But we don't have any information about the inner workings...." yet you blindly defend them to the point where you've effectively destroyed your own credibility. One would think if you're going to put your own names and reputations on the line then you'd at least have a partial knowledge of the facts but you can't provide anything at all as a logical basis for your arguments....and arguments aren't won based on emotion.

lol as per usual feel free to put me on ignore.

you compleely miss it yet again. there is NO emotional plea from me.

its you folks making grand claims of no intentions of paying, deleting 30,000 in 3 weeks and most of them deleted for absolutly no reasons.

these things from you guys, not anyone at ays.

gee ani, am I defedning? really? or am i asking where you folks are getting your info from and asking you to show me? because i cant find any proof those 3 things i asked about.

Edited

dont bring up OTHER peoples personal financial troubles unless your slate is clean

you totally miss my points every single time ani and at this point its my firm opinion you do it on purpose. you type too intelligantly to think otherwise.

[Mallerie]

Ahhh Pietro (or is it Linder?), you’re back! :)

Dawn: Just read the description of all the forums made viewable to the public. It was described as a “lead”. Maybe I was mistaken about it being members. Not sure what it is but it is described as a “lead”. Something that can be added to an email list along with all the members(deleted or not). Really doesn’t matter. AYS IS A SCAM!


Man, I never seen so much obvious spin then what I see from AYS and a few of their supporters.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/moniopt/swinghead.gif

and weve never seen big stateements which you cant prove.

whats wrong with asking that you just post truth? if you dont know it for a fact how can you run around saying it like its fact?

again, go try these things in a offline publicatino. i wanna how how far you get.

there are facts, sure. late payouts and they delete for not following the terms. nothing much to hype up about, so make something up? is that how it works?

Wow, I just noticed more complaints have been added to the boycott page (link in my signature). Most recent one today showing the same ole pattern. Member requested payout, member gets deleted.

and you know for a fact this person didnt click on the link where you delete your own account? you know for fact theyre telling the absolute truth?

Edited

and how about the cute little poke at pietro gently accusing him of beng someone elese? the more you type the more i can see why you were deleted your not all sweet and innocent and so wronged as you come off. you seem pretty much like i imagined you dealt with linder; youre gonna say what you want and everybody better just like it.

I apologize, my time frame was off a bit. In less than 6 months time period they went from about 35000 members to less than 5000 and now are down to almost 2000.

off a BIT? lol anyway, thank you asutony. apparently youre the only one that can seem to understand what i was looking for. and you very clearly answered my question. again, thanks.



This might not be a really popular post, but oh well....

Can anybody really explain what the point of this thread is and why it continues to go on and on and on and on and on and on....

hiya lil crusader. :)

all i was looking for was truth to what these folks are saying. at least austony was able to clear up what he said and show the major difference in what he said and what really happened.

its one thing to keep saying a program is behind in payments and hasnt paid out much lately if any and that a program is strict with its terms even though its behind in payouts, etc. but to purposely add more and more and more and more embellishments; i just ask why? what is the truth and what isnt? and if you say it as the truth and you cant back it up, doesnt make you very truthworthy in my book. certainly not anyone that should be a part of a ptr policing committee! (you being general you not specifc) if a body cant know the difference between facts and lies/embelishments/twisted truths then that body belongs on NO committee.

then i get ani answering me with her grandioes statement and stuff i never even said or implied. takes her answer and goes so far off base the base is a dot to her. as shes been doing for almost 2 years now.

moni cant be bothered. oh no. to busy busy for me. yet he has time to keep coming back and stir stir stir.

i really think at this point theres no truth to 95% of this garbage said and its all about stirring up responses. since its rare a new person even chimes in i wonder how many people really do see the forst for trees in regards to whats going on here and laugh and move on.

asutony was the only that could be bothred to answer a question i had which i was grateful for.

so lil, i guess asking for and wanting the truth for grand statements people make is just hogwash. nobody HAS to say the truth nbody has to show anything. its perfectly ok to say what a person wants as long as its aboyt ays. and hey! the more damage it does? the better! it boils down to doing damage and getting revenge nothing more.

[Josh]

Ahhh Pietro (or is it Linder?), you’re back! :)

This is one of the things that I was just talking about.

As a member here, you are required to refrain from posting:


1. Libelous comments;

2. Comments meant to incite, embarrass or ridicule another member, including personal attacks;

Even suggesting that someone may be someone else, as humorously as you may phrase it to make it appear "nice," still falls directly under both of those categories.

I don't expect to have to mention this to you, or any of the other participants here, again.

[moniopt]

{SNIP}
whats wrong with asking that you just post truth? {SNIP}


I don't want to play anymore Mallerie but I will add this. The truth is out there and has been out there. You just don't see it.

I think the boycott page (my sig link) says it all. The admin here went through a lot of work to put it all together, screen shots and all.

One more thing, the contest I was talking about didn't have anything to do with AYS. That is all a mute point anyway at this point. There is enough evidence on the boycott page alone to come to a sensible conclusion that AYS is no good...

[bluedahlia]

I have purposely refrained from posting in this thread because I do see it as an exercise in futility. I'm not here to defend AYS or bash anyone that is con, but only to answer Lil's question "What's the point".

Lil from my observations, I think there is a concerted organized effort to keep an AYS thread in full view on the index page of the forum. I have noticed that anytime another thread takes the top spot, someone will post a little something in the AYS thread to bump it into full view again. Those are my observations and with that, I wave ciao to this thread.

[Mallerie]

I don't want to play anymore Mallerie but I will add this. The truth is out and has been out there. You just don't see it.

I think the boycott page (my sig link) says it all. The admin here went through a lot of work to put it all together, screen shots and all.

One more thing, the contest I was talking about didn't have anything to do with AYS. That is all a mute point anyway at this point. There is enough evidence on the boycott page alone to come to a sensible conclusion that AYS is no good!

moni i wasnt playing i was sincerely asking. this does nothing more than lead me to believe your saying thigns just to say them and dont have anything to back it up.

if the truth is 'out there' why cant it seem to make its way here when people make these comments about wrong deletions and no intentinos of paying? ya think maybe cuz its all assumption outright made up stuff and nothing more?

[lil crusader]

It's out of order. :p

It goes from new, to old, to newer. :)

Oh, okay - now I see them......ty Josh. :)

[moniopt]

{SNIP} this does nothing more than lead me to believe your saying thigns just to say them and dont have anything to back it up. {SNIP}


That is your prerogative, but as I said I think the boycott page says it all (link in my sig).

If you want to find out more about the contest I was talking about, then search Meroveus’s posts here or at the other forum (get paid) and you will find out about the contest or free ipod or whatever, as she was the one that pointed it out.

If you want to know about the leads I was talking about that said earn $1 per (lead). Then go to the AYS forum as it's there as plain as day for the public to see although the details to me is not clear.

I had enough for a bit as I have datafeeds to update ;)

[bulldog10]

Oh, but you don't see Linder hiding under different names because he didn't want to face those he owes money to.
If I am thinking straight, Linder gave you an EARLY payout in front of others when you needed it, as did Mike from Mikes get paid to read, as well as those from GPF. Did you repay those people the money you OWE them? No! You changed your forum names, and then started saying how they were GIFTS not LOANS.
So, before you go around screaming that someone owes you money, maybe you should pay your own debts first, as there is something seriously wrong with the picture there. A little hypocritical if you ask me.

I really was going to stay out of this, but since I'm directly involved, I do need to clear the air. I was one who gave Ani a donation when her grandmother was sick. Please note the word gave. It wasn't a loan. In all this time, the issue of loans versus donations has been brought up repeatedly. I'm aware of only one person who has said that the money given was a loan... that's one person. Please provide some proof that there are others who have said that Ani owes them money. Also, kindly provide proof that Ani changed her name to run from those who she allegedly owes.

I distinctly remember a ruling, I believe by lexie, that the issue of loans versus gifts was to be dropped. Is that mod's ruling no longer in effect.. has it been overturned?

Lastly, libelous comments like the above by BP appear to me to be nothing but an attempt to embarrass, ridule, incite and harass. I'd respectfully ask for a mod to look into these issues, thank you.

[AnI4AnI]

Just to refresh a few memories here:

AllYouSubmitters started and popularised a dangerous trend with regards to payment standards, stating that payments will only be made to members "as revenue comes in". This leaves their business in a precarious situation - constantly in debt, and only paying members when they can afford it. As a result, some members have reported non-payment for over a year, or worse - the deliberate avoidance of payments by the staff of AllYouSubmitters. With what few payouts are made taking longer-and-longer to process, many members who join the program now, manage to reach the $50 minimum payout by adhering to the site's strict Terms of Service, and click away to stay active while waiting for their payment, may never see their money. It is for this primary reason that GPTBoycott enforces a formal boycott against AYS.

It is clear from the above that the site has many problems with regards to customer support, as well as payment. For most businesses in this industry, problems on this scale would result in widespread dissatisfaction being echoed on forums across the Internet. In order to combat this, AllYouSubmitters decided to include the following lines in their Terms of Service: "AYS will not allow members to post any libelous statements, which may harm AYS PTR. The penalties that may result from forum abuse are one or more of the following: warning, monetary fine or account suspension with forfeiture of earnings". To GPTBoycott, thinly veiled threats such as this are not acceptable within the industry, especially where users expressing legitimate dissatisfaction at the policies at AllYouSubmitters find their accounts are closed, due to an overtly liberal interpretation of the word "libelous", and the simple fact that such posts "harm AYS PTR" within the industry. It is for this second reason that AYS has been formally boycotted.

The proof has already been provided. We've already gone through the boycott process.

This thread is entitled AYS UPDATE....therefore it would seem likely that relevant updates would be added which might explain why people post updates which might explain why it doesn't keep getting buried.

[Josh]

I really was going to stay out of this, but since I'm directly involved, I do need to clear the air. I was one who gave Ani a donation when her grandmother was sick. Please note the word gave. It wasn't a loan. In all this time, the issue of loans versus donations has been brought up repeatedly. I'm aware of only one person who has said that the money given was a loan... that's one person. Please provide some proof that there are others who have said that Ani owes them money. Also, kindly provide proof that Ani changed her name to run from those who she allegedly owes.

I distinctly remember a ruling, I believe by lexie, that the issue of loans versus gifts was to be dropped. Is that mod's ruling no longer in effect.. has it been overturned?

Lastly, libelous comments like the above by BP appear to me to be nothing but an attempt to embarrass, ridule, incite and harass. I'd respectfully ask for a mod to look into these issues, thank you.

Thanks. :)

As I've said, this thread is completely saturated with the kind of stuff that I throw in the waste basket every day. It's completely horrendous, and something does need to be changed in the way this thread is approached, fundamentally.

I'm giving my best shot at moderating while I'm at work, although I'm unable to read through and sufficiently respond to every post that I see. People don't seem to listen when they are respectfully asked to change the tone and direction of this thread, so the individual posts that keep coming will need to be moderated by someone else, or by myself once I reach home later this evening (at which point the heat will have momentarily subsided, hopefully).

[AnI4AnI]

Thank you, Bulldog. I've also refrained from commenting about Bobbie Polk's inciteful post, however I reported it to staff for violating forum rules. I have every confidence the matter will be handled appropriately. :)

[pietro]

Lastly, libelous comments like the above by BP appear to me to be nothing but an attempt to embarrass, ridule, incite and harass. I'd respectfully ask for a mod to look into these issues, thank you.

Is not insinuating that I am Linder just such an attempt? Because I tend to lurk and only get into topics when I feel I might contribute something or better still correct a fallacy promoted by another member of this forum, I am accused of being someone who has been previously called among other things, a liar, a cheat, a scam artist and a thief? WERE I Linder, I do believe I would have a case to take not only Moniopt but the owners of this forum to court on a charge of libel. Remember, you must be able to prove EVERY SINGLE statement you make is true in order to be found innocent and I have yet to see proof in most of the statements made.

Josh I am making a formal request that Moniopt be issued a warning. I am not harassing him. I am simply stating my views, as is he, and it just happens that he has been one to post the kinds of remarks that encourage me to participate in a topic.

[moniopt]

This is one of the things that I was just talking about.

As a member here, you are required to refrain from posting:



Even suggesting that someone may be someone else, as humorously as you may phrase it to make it appear "nice," still falls directly under both of those categories.

I don't expect to have to mention this to you, or any of the other participants here, again.

I missed this post. There is a history behind this as it was clear that when he first joined he homed in right on me. However I will do better then what you suggest. Ignore mode is a good feature to use.

[pietro]

If you want to know about the leads I was talking about that said earn $1 per (lead). Then go to the AYS forum as it's there as plain as day for the public to see although the details to me is not clear.

The $1.00 per lead to which you refer is for ADVERTISERS not members.

[Josh]

Josh I am making a formal request that Moniopt be issued a warning. I am not harassing him. I am simply stating my views, as is he, and it just happens that he has been one to post the kinds of remarks that encourage me to participate in a topic.

I am not in charge of issuing formal warnings, and even if I were, this thread has so many rule infringements that it would take a long time to wade through. I am sure that the administration will do as they deem appropriate, after being given ample time to view the whole situation.

No pointing out of people who deserve to be warned will be necessary, as the site administrators will be able to determine those people by themselves. :)

[bulldog10]

Is not insinuating that I am Linder just such an attempt? Because I tend to lurk and only get into topics when I feel I might contribute something or better still correct a fallacy promoted by another member of this forum, I am accused of being someone who has been previously called among other things, a liar, a cheat, a scam artist and a thief? WERE I Linder, I do believe I would have a case to take not only Moniopt but the owners of this forum to court on a charge of libel. Remember, you must be able to prove EVERY SINGLE statement you make is true in order to be found innocent and I have yet to see proof in most of the statements made.

Josh I am making a formal request that Moniopt be issued a warning. I am not harassing him. I am simply stating my views, as is he, and it just happens that he has been one to post the kinds of remarks that encourage me to participate in a topic.
Since you quoted me, I'll answer by saying that I believe that Josh handled your "issues" in post #108. Some people might be insulted by someone accusing them of being Linder, others might be flattered.

It's obvious that you're upset, but once I see someone saying what they would do if such and such.. threatening court action and the like, I tend to .. well, I guess I'll hush before you ask Josh to warn me for speaking my mind ;)
edited to fix a mistake, it was post #108 not #106

[Josh]

It's time for a short cool-off period before this thread gets any worse. I understand that the tensions are strong, but accusations and requests for moderators to formally warn people are not what should be taking place here.

This will serve as an "informal warning" to everyone, to remind you to abide by the rules. This applies to everyone, and is not pointed at any individual.

Once some time has passed and the administrators have had an opportunity to view this, then the thread will be reopened.

Thank you.