4dailyDotCom
25th July 2005, 04:46
Below is the copy of recent successfully !!! filed claim against 4daily.com:
Claim ID#xxxx Details | My Claims | File a Claim
Claim ID xxxx Claim Date 18 Jul 2005 01:41
Transaction ID x,xxx,xxx Transaction Date 14 Jun 2005 22:02
Status Resolved Merchant spay@4daily.com
Activity Log
Created by You
18 Jul 2005 01:41
This is a request for a refund of money I paid to 4daily for services
that are NOT delivered as advertised:
1. No replies on inquiry emails.
2. Earned money for surfing 4daily's members' websites are not paid and are overdue.
3. Conditions of payments to members of 4daily are constantly changing without prior warning whatsoever.
4. The websites I'd like to advertise are currently not taken into circulation of advertised sites (these sites meet advertisement requirements)
Reply by Merchant
18 Jul 2005 02:09 1. Services are delivered as advertised in FAQs.
2. All support emails are answered with less than 24 hour turnaround.
3. Any changes made to payouts are clearly made according to the FAQs. Anyone joining 4Daily.com is requested to read FAQs.
4. I have checked the website that you have on hold and it appears to be fine (MY COMMENT: I was talking about “enabled” sites). Members have the ability to place URLs on hold and this site may have been reported in error. You are able to "enable" the website on your member page and this was pointed out to you in the email you received.
5. Earnings have resulted from the upgrades made through StormPay in June. These earnings have been used to upgrade accounts.
I believe that this is not the forum for this discussion. You are welcome to raise a ticket at 4daily.com/help.
Upgrades are non-refundable. Earnings from these upgrades have been spent.
Regards
Support
4Daily.com
Reply by You
20 Jul 2005 14:14 Thank you for your reply,
This is certainly not a forum and this correspondence is certainly not a “discussion” but a request for membership fee refund due to non delivery of advertised services by 4 daily (this does include non reply to my emails. This is also something that other members often complain at 4daily forum)
FAQs section describes possible reductions in earnings, but it is short of mentioning the following BASIC service related issues:
1. It does not mention that payouts are subject to delays. Payment on my account #xxxxxx is overdue and is not paid. The same is true for a lot of members posting at 4daily forum. By contrast, there are only 4 questionable posts that say members being paid this month. Payments were delayed last month, payments are delayed (if ever delivered) this month.. 4daily found it to be necessary to place the following statement on their front page “…Please DO NOT write if you have not been paid yet! We know, and we will not reply”. This could only indicate that 4daily is overwhelmed with emails on payout problems
2. FAQs do not mention that 4daily’s website is subject to availability. Site is often not accessible for several days in a row neither for surfing nor for advertising.
3. FAQs do not mention that member’s sites may or may not be taken into advertising circulation and that CPH settings may have NO effect on the rate members’ sites are advertised. Examples: My (enabled!!!) sites are not taken into advertisement circulation even right now !!! I’ve added credits to one of my sites at account #xxxxxx in the morning of July 19th and at account #xxxxxx 2days earlier. The amount of credits is not reduced. Just two more examples from other user complaints at 4daily forum: user xxxxxxxxx states “no hit since 12/07/05 wots happning”. User Xxxxxx states “my credits are not moving”...” since I purchased 30 000 credits”.
The list of various service related complaints from members goes on and on. The enormous variety of service related complaints can be seen at 4daily forum (that is, if forum is not closed completely by admin as it happened in June. Discussion forum is part of the service too!!!). Notably, the most serious complaints are there only for a short time and are promptly deleted by the admin, member’s access to forum is then banned and accounts are deleted .
Despite of the above, I also would like to state that I overall wish best to 4daily’s business in the future, but at the moment this should not be a paid service. This is the reason I demand a refund of fees I paid. IF 4daily shows fairness (that is, refund my fees), I will continue the use of 4daily services as a free member.
Kindly,
Reply by Merchant
20 Jul 2005 19:24 Even though you agree this is NOT a Forum for discussion, I will briefly respond to a couple of your comments.
Obviously, you appear to have read and understood the FAQs, and this is good, but you fail to quote the FAQ “Will my money be at risk?” “Yes. Membership fees are not refundable under any circumstances.” I believe you would have read that FAQ and it would be grossly unfair to all other Members of 4Daily.com if a refund was authorised to you because you changed your mind (MY COMMENT: please take a note this particular sentence said by 4daily support team member about fairness to other 4daily members and read on).
I absolutely refute your suggestion that emails are not answered on a timely basis.
If xxxxxx was your first account, you joined at a time when 4Daily changed servers. This is a huge undertaking and surfing is still not perfect to this day. However, I can assure you it is being worked on by experts and will be back to normal as soon as humanly possible. I apologise that surfing is not as perfect as you would like it to be.
This answer serves to reply to ALL your claims, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx and xxxx.
Regards
Support
4Daily.com
Reply by You
22 Jul 2005 01:54 My complaints on non delivery of advertised by 4daily services stands fully. You can keep “refuting” the obvious, but your own forum disproves your statements outright on all counts. Please let’s save each other’s time…
I don’t really see why do you feel that “…not refundable under any circumstances.” quote somehow strengthens your reply. Are you saying that 4daily is under no obligations in front of its members whatsoever? I hope not, or else this would be really something “grossly unfair to all members”. Besides, such quote looks more like your last resort in argument on this claim.
This reply also serves claims, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx and xxxx.
Kindly,
Reply by Merchant
22 Jul 2005 05:13 Fees are not refundable under any circumstances.
Regards
Support
4Daily.com
Reply by You
22 Jul 2005 17:18 This answer does not satisfy my previous reply and does not address at least one of my previous questions: Why am I not paid the earnings at my account # xxxxxx as of now?
I also would like to add yet another, but perhaps MOST IMPORTANT REASON to support my claims for the refund:
4daily is in serious violation of its own rules by proposing to pay its members reduced amounts of earnings in July as well as in June. 4daily failed to notify its members of possibility for such adjustment and this should be considered as unfair business practice.
FAQs section “Are payouts guaranteed?” states (I am quoting entire section):
“No. The proposed payout is 4% of your Member Level for each day that you earn 40 or more credits for viewing other members pages. Bonus, referral and purchased credits are excluded from earning.
The percentage may be adjusted up or down depending on the inflow of revenues. Downward adjustments may be necessary in periods of slow growth and could potentially reach zero at times to keep the program operating.”
This “rule” does imply that depending on funds inflow, 4daily reserves the right to adjust the percentage of earnings and this is accepted by me and other members who purchased 4daily services.
HOWEVER, nowhere in FAQs there could one find mentioning that percentage of ALREADY EARNED !!! money is ALSO a subject for the RETROSPECTIVE !!! adjustment (reduction), which is exactly what 4daily did in June and IS doing now in July. This is serious violation!!!
Proposed by 4daily payout in June was adjusted to 3% (75% of earned by members payouts). Payments in July are reduced even more (25%, then 30%, then 50%, then back to %30, to 10% and even to 4% and I personally have not been AT ALL) These adjustments are all done RETROSPECTIVELY, which is completely against 4daily’s own rules related to the eligible for payout upgrades.
The copy of 4daily “terms & conditions” that I saved at the time of my upgrades purchase reads: “…earnings may be reduced to zero at times if necessary and that you may not earn your money back or make any profit”. This statement basically repeats statement from FAQs section that I quoted above and this is also what I DID accept at the time of membership fee payments.
The same paragraph at 4daily’s website TODAY !!! (revised on JULY 1ST !!!) reads: “…earnings may be reduced RETROSPECTIVELY WITHOUT WARNING at times if necessary (potentially to zero) and that you may not earn any of your money back or make any profit.” (capitalized by me, AND this is something that I DO NOT accept)
Exactly the same modification (that is, addition of words “RETROSPECTIVELY WITHOUT WARNING”) can also be seen in another paragraph of revised on JULY 1ST (!!!) 4daily terms section.
Due to it’s date, this modification MUST NOT apply to payments that were due 4daily members both, in June AND in July. This must be so because ALL eligible for payout upgrades where purchased prior to July 1st. It is my understanding that only upgrades purchased AFTER this date should fall under this NEW rule (that is, if a modification like this is legitimate at all).
Continued in the next post...
Claim ID#xxxx Details | My Claims | File a Claim
Claim ID xxxx Claim Date 18 Jul 2005 01:41
Transaction ID x,xxx,xxx Transaction Date 14 Jun 2005 22:02
Status Resolved Merchant spay@4daily.com
Activity Log
Created by You
18 Jul 2005 01:41
This is a request for a refund of money I paid to 4daily for services
that are NOT delivered as advertised:
1. No replies on inquiry emails.
2. Earned money for surfing 4daily's members' websites are not paid and are overdue.
3. Conditions of payments to members of 4daily are constantly changing without prior warning whatsoever.
4. The websites I'd like to advertise are currently not taken into circulation of advertised sites (these sites meet advertisement requirements)
Reply by Merchant
18 Jul 2005 02:09 1. Services are delivered as advertised in FAQs.
2. All support emails are answered with less than 24 hour turnaround.
3. Any changes made to payouts are clearly made according to the FAQs. Anyone joining 4Daily.com is requested to read FAQs.
4. I have checked the website that you have on hold and it appears to be fine (MY COMMENT: I was talking about “enabled” sites). Members have the ability to place URLs on hold and this site may have been reported in error. You are able to "enable" the website on your member page and this was pointed out to you in the email you received.
5. Earnings have resulted from the upgrades made through StormPay in June. These earnings have been used to upgrade accounts.
I believe that this is not the forum for this discussion. You are welcome to raise a ticket at 4daily.com/help.
Upgrades are non-refundable. Earnings from these upgrades have been spent.
Regards
Support
4Daily.com
Reply by You
20 Jul 2005 14:14 Thank you for your reply,
This is certainly not a forum and this correspondence is certainly not a “discussion” but a request for membership fee refund due to non delivery of advertised services by 4 daily (this does include non reply to my emails. This is also something that other members often complain at 4daily forum)
FAQs section describes possible reductions in earnings, but it is short of mentioning the following BASIC service related issues:
1. It does not mention that payouts are subject to delays. Payment on my account #xxxxxx is overdue and is not paid. The same is true for a lot of members posting at 4daily forum. By contrast, there are only 4 questionable posts that say members being paid this month. Payments were delayed last month, payments are delayed (if ever delivered) this month.. 4daily found it to be necessary to place the following statement on their front page “…Please DO NOT write if you have not been paid yet! We know, and we will not reply”. This could only indicate that 4daily is overwhelmed with emails on payout problems
2. FAQs do not mention that 4daily’s website is subject to availability. Site is often not accessible for several days in a row neither for surfing nor for advertising.
3. FAQs do not mention that member’s sites may or may not be taken into advertising circulation and that CPH settings may have NO effect on the rate members’ sites are advertised. Examples: My (enabled!!!) sites are not taken into advertisement circulation even right now !!! I’ve added credits to one of my sites at account #xxxxxx in the morning of July 19th and at account #xxxxxx 2days earlier. The amount of credits is not reduced. Just two more examples from other user complaints at 4daily forum: user xxxxxxxxx states “no hit since 12/07/05 wots happning”. User Xxxxxx states “my credits are not moving”...” since I purchased 30 000 credits”.
The list of various service related complaints from members goes on and on. The enormous variety of service related complaints can be seen at 4daily forum (that is, if forum is not closed completely by admin as it happened in June. Discussion forum is part of the service too!!!). Notably, the most serious complaints are there only for a short time and are promptly deleted by the admin, member’s access to forum is then banned and accounts are deleted .
Despite of the above, I also would like to state that I overall wish best to 4daily’s business in the future, but at the moment this should not be a paid service. This is the reason I demand a refund of fees I paid. IF 4daily shows fairness (that is, refund my fees), I will continue the use of 4daily services as a free member.
Kindly,
Reply by Merchant
20 Jul 2005 19:24 Even though you agree this is NOT a Forum for discussion, I will briefly respond to a couple of your comments.
Obviously, you appear to have read and understood the FAQs, and this is good, but you fail to quote the FAQ “Will my money be at risk?” “Yes. Membership fees are not refundable under any circumstances.” I believe you would have read that FAQ and it would be grossly unfair to all other Members of 4Daily.com if a refund was authorised to you because you changed your mind (MY COMMENT: please take a note this particular sentence said by 4daily support team member about fairness to other 4daily members and read on).
I absolutely refute your suggestion that emails are not answered on a timely basis.
If xxxxxx was your first account, you joined at a time when 4Daily changed servers. This is a huge undertaking and surfing is still not perfect to this day. However, I can assure you it is being worked on by experts and will be back to normal as soon as humanly possible. I apologise that surfing is not as perfect as you would like it to be.
This answer serves to reply to ALL your claims, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx and xxxx.
Regards
Support
4Daily.com
Reply by You
22 Jul 2005 01:54 My complaints on non delivery of advertised by 4daily services stands fully. You can keep “refuting” the obvious, but your own forum disproves your statements outright on all counts. Please let’s save each other’s time…
I don’t really see why do you feel that “…not refundable under any circumstances.” quote somehow strengthens your reply. Are you saying that 4daily is under no obligations in front of its members whatsoever? I hope not, or else this would be really something “grossly unfair to all members”. Besides, such quote looks more like your last resort in argument on this claim.
This reply also serves claims, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx and xxxx.
Kindly,
Reply by Merchant
22 Jul 2005 05:13 Fees are not refundable under any circumstances.
Regards
Support
4Daily.com
Reply by You
22 Jul 2005 17:18 This answer does not satisfy my previous reply and does not address at least one of my previous questions: Why am I not paid the earnings at my account # xxxxxx as of now?
I also would like to add yet another, but perhaps MOST IMPORTANT REASON to support my claims for the refund:
4daily is in serious violation of its own rules by proposing to pay its members reduced amounts of earnings in July as well as in June. 4daily failed to notify its members of possibility for such adjustment and this should be considered as unfair business practice.
FAQs section “Are payouts guaranteed?” states (I am quoting entire section):
“No. The proposed payout is 4% of your Member Level for each day that you earn 40 or more credits for viewing other members pages. Bonus, referral and purchased credits are excluded from earning.
The percentage may be adjusted up or down depending on the inflow of revenues. Downward adjustments may be necessary in periods of slow growth and could potentially reach zero at times to keep the program operating.”
This “rule” does imply that depending on funds inflow, 4daily reserves the right to adjust the percentage of earnings and this is accepted by me and other members who purchased 4daily services.
HOWEVER, nowhere in FAQs there could one find mentioning that percentage of ALREADY EARNED !!! money is ALSO a subject for the RETROSPECTIVE !!! adjustment (reduction), which is exactly what 4daily did in June and IS doing now in July. This is serious violation!!!
Proposed by 4daily payout in June was adjusted to 3% (75% of earned by members payouts). Payments in July are reduced even more (25%, then 30%, then 50%, then back to %30, to 10% and even to 4% and I personally have not been AT ALL) These adjustments are all done RETROSPECTIVELY, which is completely against 4daily’s own rules related to the eligible for payout upgrades.
The copy of 4daily “terms & conditions” that I saved at the time of my upgrades purchase reads: “…earnings may be reduced to zero at times if necessary and that you may not earn your money back or make any profit”. This statement basically repeats statement from FAQs section that I quoted above and this is also what I DID accept at the time of membership fee payments.
The same paragraph at 4daily’s website TODAY !!! (revised on JULY 1ST !!!) reads: “…earnings may be reduced RETROSPECTIVELY WITHOUT WARNING at times if necessary (potentially to zero) and that you may not earn any of your money back or make any profit.” (capitalized by me, AND this is something that I DO NOT accept)
Exactly the same modification (that is, addition of words “RETROSPECTIVELY WITHOUT WARNING”) can also be seen in another paragraph of revised on JULY 1ST (!!!) 4daily terms section.
Due to it’s date, this modification MUST NOT apply to payments that were due 4daily members both, in June AND in July. This must be so because ALL eligible for payout upgrades where purchased prior to July 1st. It is my understanding that only upgrades purchased AFTER this date should fall under this NEW rule (that is, if a modification like this is legitimate at all).
Continued in the next post...