Raremails - criminal deceptive business practices

[melendez1970]

I had a recent problem with Raremails I wanted to bring to your attention.

I had a balance of over 300 points and wanted to redeem it for free traffic to my site, which I was now eligible for.

I went to the site and accidentally hit the $3 cashout button reserved for "upgraded members only". This option should not have been mechanically available to me. I've used countless PTR sites for years and this is the first time an option was made available to me that I was not actually eligible for in the first place. And the way it is worded, it looks like clicking the link will give you an upgraded membership for $3, so it is deceptive in multiple ways.

I got an e-mail from the guy who runs the company telling me I was not eligible for the $3 cashout since I'm not an upgraded member. So I waited for the $3 to be returned to my account....and waited and waited and waited....

Finally, I e-mailed the person who runs the company and asked them what was going on. I told them the way things were set up it looks like they are trying to commit intentional fraud and steal from users.

They responded in the way that shady and deceptive PTR site operators usually do....by cancelling my account. Because I called them on their shady business practices, they cancelled my account. Of course they mentioned some gibberish about their TOS. But just because a given clause or clause appears in a TOS does not give them a license to engage in deceptive and fraudulent business practices.

Now I know why this company has been around forever yet has only about 900 members. If you are one of the few remaining members of this pitiful company, I suggest you redeem any points or cash you might have and then drop them like a bad habit.

[ryandylan]

Bu is very nice.. Bu normally doesn't cancel accounts unless you are being rude.. re: the $3, most won't refund it back because they expect you to understand their language. Raremails is run from China. And honestly, since more than 50% are chinese run, i recommend you do your research on ptr programs before signing up

[bellestraker]

Bu is very nice.. Bu normally doesn't cancel accounts unless you are being rude.. re: the $3, most won't refund it back because they expect you to understand their language. Raremails is run from China. And honestly, since more than 50% are chinese run, i recommend you do your research on ptr programs before signing up



I'm wondering how he could have researched whether they may delete his acount or not.

A trial run maybe??

Have a good one

Belle

ftr.
I have no idea if they had a legit reason or not..or if they are really "nice".

Also do not understand the reference to China..??

Tot he OP..
I have often had the option for upgraded member payout come up ( when i was not an upgraded member)..at several sites.

It really is safer to take a breath and ..re-read before pushing that button..
Good luck.

[ryandylan]

well, commonsence tells you that if you see a botton with the word upgrade on it, don't click it unless you are upgraded already.

[bellestraker]

well, commonsence tells you that if you see a botton with the word upgrade on it, don't click it unless you are upgraded already.


Or maybe...want to become upgraded..lol

Have a good one

Belle

[ryandylan]

nice response bell, lol.. i like that, lol

[marmoo901]

wow do you realy think it works to threaten people,just because you are stupid or do not ubderstand what you read.it looks to me like youwere tryin to pell a fast one on Raremails........oh yes Bu sent me a copy of all the conversation between you and her when you threatend her and called her a cheat and fraud.When i saw what you were saying you would do just because she is from china.if i were her i would of sent you your full balance and then deleted your account or just left you in and not sent you any paid mails.....whats this site that you own as you threatend to hurt Raremails on?

[edskers]

Here is the button , that you pushed , and which is all the way at the bottom section of the page ...

Upgraded Member Cashout
Spend Cash $ 3

Now if you were looking for 300 points for free traffic , it about 2 sections above marked
* 5,000 Banner Impressions - 300 Points

Looking nothing at all like

Upgraded Member Cashout
Spend Cash $ 3

Another thing is that is not the first redemption on the page..

First redemption is

# 1/4 Cent Solo Email to All(20sec Timer) - $1.48

And did you include the banner when you hit the cash out button with your banner.. ?? Nope , You didn't..

You were correct , that they did email you , saying you were not a upgraded member..

What you didn't include , is that you didn't email in response for almost 3 weeks.. And when you did , you emailed them , threatening and insulting.. In which they replied and at that point you were still a member.. In which , you came back with more threats and insults..

People , need to realize before emails or talking to people , threats done get you anywhere..

If you would have gone to a store , , or talked to your boss the way you did to Bu , you would have been fired on the spot..

In ending , you were trying to get payout early, you got caught , didn't even bother to email admin , to admiy you made a mistake , and when you realized that you weren't getting your money back , you decided that intimidation was going to get you what you wanted...

People , need to realize also , that you are not the only member of the site. I am sure Bu forgot all about you , when they didn't hear back from you..

A little courtesy , will have gotten you a long way.. Threats and insults , got you , nowhere..

Have a good one..

[ryandylan]

ouch, that has gotta leave a mark.. but, very true as well. If it was me receiving those threats, I would have done a mass email to all PTR owners about this member, blocked the IP and the username. I know Bu is very nice about things. But, sometimes, she just lets it go a little too much.

[bellestraker]

Here is the button , that you pushed , and which is all the way at the bottom section of the page ...

Upgraded Member Cashout
Spend Cash $ 3

Now if you were looking for 300 points for free traffic , it about 2 sections above marked
* 5,000 Banner Impressions - 300 Points

Looking nothing at all like

Upgraded Member Cashout
Spend Cash $ 3

Another thing is that is not the first redemption on the page..

First redemption is

# 1/4 Cent Solo Email to All(20sec Timer) - $1.48

And did you include the banner when you hit the cash out button with your banner.. ?? Nope , You didn't..

You were correct , that they did email you , saying you were not a upgraded member..

What you didn't include , is that you didn't email in response for almost 3 weeks.. And when you did , you emailed them , threatening and insulting.. In which they replied and at that point you were still a member.. In which , you came back with more threats and insults..

People , need to realize before emails or talking to people , threats done get you anywhere..

If you would have gone to a store , , or talked to your boss the way you did to Bu , you would have been fired on the spot..

In ending , you were trying to get payout early, you got caught , didn't even bother to email admin , to admiy you made a mistake , and when you realized that you weren't getting your money back , you decided that intimidation was going to get you what you wanted...

People , need to realize also , that you are not the only member of the site. I am sure Bu forgot all about you , when they didn't hear back from you..

A little courtesy , will have gotten you a long way.. Threats and insults , got you , nowhere..

Have a good one..





C'mon Edskers

Stop trying to confuse us with facts.

It just doesnt sound near as exciting the way you tell it lol.

Have a good one

Belle

[edskers]

LOL belle.. :)

Love right back at you

[anyyan]

Thankyou Ryan,Tammy,Mary,and Belle.I was searching for the emails between the OP and me,after i formatted my PC at home.Here's some left at my office's machine,and melendez1970 you can add those i lost,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "###" <###@aol.com>
> To: <support@raremails.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 2:04 AM
> Subject: Earnings/Points Question
>
>
> > name: Greg ###
> >
> > username: ###
> >
> > bquestion_type: Intentional theft by raremails?
> >
> > message_type: Recently, I accidentally hit the $3 "upgraded members"
cashout button despite not being an upgraded member.
> >
> > At the time I was informed I was not eligible for this payout since I'm not
an upgraded member.
> >
> > First of all, why was the cashout option available to me in the first
place? At other PTR sites, only rewards I'm actually eligible for have buttons
that I can click on.
> >
> > Secondly, why wasn't the $3 immediately returned to my account? And why
has it STILL not been returned to my account weeks later? By having a cashout
button available to click for ineligible people, a mechanical system that
deducts the money from their account anyway, and then not returning the money
to their account....it looks like you've set up a system that allows you to
commit intentional theft/fraud when the opportunity presents itself. To avoid
being placed in a group with the other fraudsters of the industry, it is
probably in your best interests to remedy my account situation ASAP and fix
what appear to be intentional mechanical errors on your site.

> Hi Greg,
> Most sites have different cashout options for free and upgraded members,its
the scripts that prepare all the jobs to make things easy,for both webmasters
and members.I have those options from the day one we launched,and never had a
problem with memebrs who read carefully.I was actually expecting an explanation
from you,if you hit the button accidentally.I even emailed you right after you
did the illegal request,and you got my informing as you said,then again no
explanation.Now ok,your accusing/threatening me instead of sending me a
courteous explanation.Sorry,threat wont work things out,but will lead to the
temination of your membership.
> Bu

Then I will make sure my website (which receives 50,000+ unique visitors
daily) and a vast internet posting campaign on every site involving PTR
programs leads to the termination of whatever little is left of your
company (with fewer than 1,000 members that won't be hard). Additionally,
I will be contacting law enforcement officials in your area regarding
this intentional fraud, providing very specific details of what you're up
to (we'll see where your TOS gets you in court). The bottom line is, just
because some clause is buried somewhere in your TOS doesn't give you
license to engage in intentionally fraudulent and deceptive business
practices, and when you engage in those practices, the nature of the
internet allows news of those practices to be spread far and wide......
as long as I'm telling the truth (the truth speaks for itself in this
case), there is no legal recourse available to you since I would have to
be lying for you to have legal recourse. And not IMMEDIATELY re-crediting
my account after the mistake was an admission of fraudulent practices on
your part. There wasn't going to be $3 going into my Paypal account so
you were losing no money on the deal and had no motivation for engaging
in the practices that you engaged in except for the purposes of
intentionally committing easily proveable fraud.
I'm guessing you're in a country outside the U.S. that runs on some kind
of shaky legal system (India? China? the Phillipines?). Things are a lot
more organized here in the U.S. and we consumers are well-trained to spot
fraudulent practices when we see them and report them to the police as
well as any other parties who might be interested. The enjoyment I get
out of exposing your intentionally criminal practices will provide far
more pleasure to me than making $5 ever could have.
Your account was cancelled not for sending illegal request,but for constant insult and threat.Your welcome to post my replies before the last moment i cancelled your account.
As for what you said in this thread,something different from what you emailed me.I didn't remember you had 300 points or not,but i really dunno how a plain button without any form attached could redeem ads for traffic to your site.Thanks Tammy for pointing out that cashout options are even at the very bottom of redemption page below those all kinds of ads redemptions. Also that redemption was marked as "Upgraded Member Cashout",not your saying "upgraded members only",and we actually have another option "Gold Membership" for $8,so your another 'accident' didn't really make any sense either.
Take care,
Bu

[ryandylan]

no problem Bu, it's just another internet idiot that is trying to get an innocent program in trouble.